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News: Revs trade Feilhaber to Kansas City for Allocation + Draft Picks

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by bwidell, Dec 11, 2012.

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  1. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator Staff Member

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    But that was all Benny's fault, obviously. Not being played in the right position, game after game... yep, all Benny's fault.

    Heaps gets a pass for this year apparently. The fault for last year is Burns, Benny or SJ. And sometimes Tierney. Oh, and Kraft of course!
     


  2. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

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    So, since you're going to extremes defending a guy that fans on this board nearly universally agreed underperformed in 2012 - serious question, you'd give Benny a Mr. Hustle award?

    I am a little perplexed at what you're suggesting. Are you saying those people did not contribute to the lack of success this past season? No one gave Heaps a pass, even the KADs.
    Way I look at it, 2012 blame is distributed as follows, which I think many here would agree with:
    • It's a huge part Heaps's fault for consistently playing Benny out of position, ignoring the data that screamed for Benny to be played at A-mid, and for being tactically naieve on many occasions. Heaps shoulders a significant amount of blame for the 2012 season failure.
    • It's part Burns's fault for making poor decisions on numerous players that were probably never going to be successful. Specifically, Moreno and Lozano were clear busts, while there were shades of gray on Cardenas, and he deserves credit for bringing in Sene.
    • It's part Kraft's fault for hiring Heaps and not going after someone more experienced like he would if making the same hiring decision for the Patriots. I strongly doubt Kraft would hire Tedy Bruschi because he's a passionate warrior loyal to the pats, even if he had never coached at any level in his life.
    • It's part Benny's fault for underperforming based on his salary (1g,2a for a 400k+ player is a woefully poor value if nothing else), having a lack of discipline - far too many cards for a veteran, and then frequently sulking when something didn't go his way. I honestly don't know how anyone could defend Feilhaber's 2012 performance.
    • It's part SJ's fault for a lack of leadership from the captain and for underperforming this season.
    • It's part Tierney's fault for bypassing the midfield so often and forcing the rest of the team to play route one long ball, reverting back to Nicol tactics.
     
  3. burud111

    burud111 Member

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    Burns:
    “The fact that we did sign Cissé and Dorman, who are both central midfielders, gave us more of an opportunity to seriously look to trade Benny,” Revolution general manager Michael Burns told MLSsoccer.com by phone on Tuesday afternoon. “If that hadn't happened, I don't know if we would have been willing to do that.

    Interesting that there is the chance that we might not have been able to complete central midfield signings and would have retained Benny at a lower salary cap hit. Personally, I would always be looking to trade an underperforming, high-salaried player for the resources necessary to replace him, rather than hanging on to a player that isn't meeting expectations simply to meet personnel requirements at a specific position.
     
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  4. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

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    You didn't quote me, but as someone who hates the constant attacks on Feilhaber, I'll address it. Yes, Benny had a poor year. I'm pretty sure he'd be the first to say so. So let's look at the possibilities.

    1) He had worse players around him. Personally, I don't think so. Pretty similar I'd say overall. Nguyen was solid. Sene scored more, but converted similarly %wise to Lekic.

    2) He was a worse player. I don't buy this for a minute. Guys don't just lose their ability to play soccer.

    3) He was misused. I don't think anyone would argue this. A guy who has flourished predominantly as an attacking midfielder/wide midfielder is being used primarily as a DM in a narrow diamond midfield. Makes sense? No.

    4) New coach. He had 4 goals and 8 assists in 23 matches the season before. That said, he's actually played for real coaches up until now. So, yeah, maybe Benny is to blame for not nursing Heaps into a real coach, but I'd say otherwise. The coach is responsible for making the most of his players, and Heaps did not.

    5) Benny just isn't that talented. If you say yes to this, please respond so I can just ignore any future comments. The guy is constantly mentioned by soccer commentators as one of the best technical players the US has. He's played in Gold Cups, he's played in WCQs, he's played in the WC.

    So yeah, I think 3 and 4 are 90% of the reason. I'll give option 2 10% as I think he had become completely unmotivated around midseason. He was forced to not only be a defensive cog in the midfield but also dictate play and tempo on a poorly run/coached team. Ideally you'd want a high paid player to work through this mentally, but as a fan I wasn't able to accept it so I can understand a professional becoming sick of it. If I felt like I knew far more than my boss, I'd quit and find a new job, but it's a bit different in professional sports.
     
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  5. bayernrevs

    bayernrevs Member

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    That's a whole different discussion Re: The problems with this franchise. I'm no fan of how things are done here for the most part either but to deal a player who you were having a hard time fitting into your system for signifigant future bargaining chips is not the occasion I find to climb on my soapbox and proclaim its a disaster. Unfortunately this trade had to be made, and I like the return, although you are right it would have been nice if SKC threw in their FO apparatus and the rights to LiveStrong Park as well.
     
  6. bayernrevs

    bayernrevs Member

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    My thinking exactly, but except for Cooper a Central Defender.
     
  7. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

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    He is probably the most over rated player in the US but what really bothered me about Benny is he quit about midway through. The effort needs to accompany the talent. See Nguyen.

    As for playing for a real coach, I guess that puts Klinsmann in the same category as Heaps because he hasnt selected Benny either. Is it the coach or is it something about the player?
     
  8. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

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    Only thing I don't care for in this trade is that the picks are a year and 2 years down the road. other than that I am ok with this as long as they use the money to get starting CB or LB
     
  9. ftruscot

    ftruscot Member

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    Maybe the Revs are hoping that Benny's "bad attitude" will poison the KC locker room and destroy their 2013 season, thus making that 2014 pick much more valuable.

    That's facetious, but I think KC is a bit precarious. They don't score that much (only 42 goals last season, 3 more than the Revs). They win games with defense (allowed 27, 17 less than the Revs). A couple injuries in the back line, and the loss of some defensive bite in the midfield could quickly change their fortunes. They don't need more creativity in midfield, they create chances, what they need is a forward who can finish a decent percentage of those chances. So this Benny aquisition seems a little odd to me as it costs them some significant salary and doesn't really address their biggest needs (replacement for defensive midfield bite lost in Espinoza, and a proficient goal scorer). But, I'm not their GM.
     
  10. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator Staff Member

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    No. I thought he busted his ass early in the season, and got frustrated as at least once a game, he'd put in a great ball and we'd somehow screw it up. Then he got even more frustrated being played in the wrong position.

    The rest of your response ... huskydeac did a great job of responding for me.
     
  11. ktsd

    ktsd Member

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    I also got the sense that he was fairly well beaten up by other teams. Their was little to no protection in his mis-cast position and he didn't seem to have the freedom to play his game. No 'enforcer' and gritty presence as mentioned elsewhere. I'm not excusing how he handled it, but can see the frustration for him in the situation.

    To me that makes it: 'not the right players around him' and 'being played out of position'. Which are the GM's and coach's responsibilities respectively. IE 'Not the right environment' - which is why the flavor of the Revs is Broccoli Rabe rather than the Filet Mignon richness of other teams.

    Sigh. #@$@ing Side Dish team.

    Kevin D.
     
  12. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

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    Well, I had wondered about that, yes. And the same logic probably applies. The only reason I can think of for taking on some salary while getting back allocation money is the greater flexibility in how allocation money can be used, but I would guess, generally, that if you're receiving allocation $, you're probably not also eating salary.

    And, in this case, Feilhaber will be getting a whole new contract since his option was declined - so the Revs can't pay part of his contract, since he has no contract with them.
    It's a huge leap from the Revs not disclosing how/when they use allocation money to they almost never use it. Logic would dictate that sooner or later, in one way or another, they always use it.
    And not this time. He's a quality player, I have no doubt. One we failed to get the most out of. Sad. [BTW, Monty, this is one of those times I am criticizing the team!]
    I agree totally.

    While I think we got decent value, and a nice flip from a league allocation to a 1st, a 2nd and $$, in the broader picture this represents a massive failure of Nicol and Heaps to find a way to utilize him better.

    What worries me, and shouldn't be lost in all this, is Toja. I realize that he started late and needed time to get into shape, but for all the hype, I say NO evidence that Heaps was able to utilize him to spark the offense. I'm worried that Heaps doesn't know how to create a scoring offense.

    Nguyen played a much different role. He came here with low expectations (he was free and cheap and had been cut from an expansion team). He was allowed to play with a lot of freedom in his natural position.

    Benny is always going to be a hard fit into a standard position (as was Dempsey in MLS). But, coaches here were always trying to mold him into what they wanted, not maximize what he was. That may be a coach's prerogative, but it's a much more difficult situation that Nguyen was placed in.
    Again, that's a much different situation. With the defense and midfield the USNT has, they don't have the luxury of being able to plug in a "softer" offensive player. They need strong 2-way players. That doesn't mean he isn't talented or doesn't play hard - it means his skillset doesn't match what Klinsmann is looking for now.

    In the longer run, I think the picks will be worth more to us in '14/'15. I think KC will be good next year, but the year after is far less certain. And, a stronger draft is predicted for next year.

    If we weren't able to get a strong defender from this deal (which looks to be the case), I'm fine with getting draft picks. They certainly have plenty of resources to get some quality defenders in - the questions are all about identifying and signing them.

    And, although I think many have written him off (and I have no idea why he didn't play this season), I get the sense that Polack is still very much in their plans.
     
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  13. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator Staff Member

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    :D
    Actually, I thought he played really well under Nicol in 2011. It was under Heaps that things fell apart.
     
  14. Revs in 2010

    Revs in 2010 Member

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    Been avoiding BS for a while -- partly feeling like there's no need to pick at a wound that's not healing (my take on the Revs' performance) and partly because the last couple of times I've lurked I've been turned off by the childish personal attacks.

    I have to say that I'm happy with this move -- I'm one of those who questioned Benny's attitude (from when he was allocated/fell to us) and have to say that he didn't do much to dispel that in my mind. Net of everything, we got something back for him (the draft picks will be tangible, the allocation is one of those things you never really know how it's used) and he probably wouldn't have been productive for us.

    That said, I strongly suspect that he will perform well in KC. His talents fit better with their more established team, and bad attitudes don't seem to have as much effect on winning teams (just ask Manny Ramirez).
     
  15. RevSoccerMV

    RevSoccerMV Member

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    Unfortunately, I dont think the Revs are at a restaurant that has filet mignon & broccoli rabe on the menu.
     
  16. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

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    Benny is going to be awesome in KC where he doesn't have to drop into his own third to bail out shit defenders to receive the ball.
     
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  17. RevsFanDan

    RevsFanDan Member

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    Will be interesting to hear what people have to say when SKC win the Supporter's Shield with the help of Benny! I'll also be very interested to see his play along side Zusi and will he get a look at USMNT again..!

    man it's fun to see what good teams do with trades and player placement!!
     
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  18. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member

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    Focus and effort, folks. That's all it was.

    Nguyen found a way to succeed amidst the mess; Benny chose not to.
     
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  19. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member

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    I keyed on those statements as well. Reading between lines, here's how it could read:

    “I am really excited to depart from the NE Revolution. It is a bottom-drawer organization and team in Major League Soccer. My goal is to help the [next] team [I play for] however I can. I cannot wait to stop playing in the most echo-filled stadium in the League and in front of a shrinking and ever-more-inattentive-and-uninformed-and-uninvested-and-preadolescent-and-transient fan base. I am already hyped for the not playing in any more Revs games. Ever.”
     
  20. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

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    or deal with a coach that sends out a different lineup every game
     
  21. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

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    what will be interesting is how he and Vermes gets along. I can imagine that if Vermes subs him out a few times Benny will start with the attitude
     
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  22. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

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    Maybe I've missed it, but have there ever been reports of the "attitude" during his time here? Other than speculation on bigsoccer.
     
  23. ktsd

    ktsd Member

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    D00d, his FACE said it all. I mean, look at his expression! It's obvious....

    Don't even get me started on body language.

    Kevin D.
     
  24. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

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    nope,,,,,I think there was an article a few years ago that Arena or Bradley were not fans of his work ethic or attitude but really just speculation and fan perception and the fact that he is on his 5th team in 7 years really does not prove anything either:rolleyes:
     
  25. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

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    Well, since I'm not Doc, nor do I have a phd in reading body language...I'm not going to waste my time making assumptions about someone I see from 60 yards away in the stadium, or in snippets on TV.
    Look, I'm not saying that Benny tried hard. I don't happen to think he played particularly well all the time, or even enough of the time. But to sit here and cast aspersions about a guys efforts, because he played on one of the worst teams in MLS, for one of the least committed ownerships in sports, and for a rookie head coach with no experience....yeah, exactly. I'm not making excuses for Benny. He wasn't good here. IF he wasn't motivated to come to work here, I honestly wouldn't blame him. Would you?
     
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