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News: Revs trade Feilhaber to Kansas City for Allocation + Draft Picks

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by bwidell, Dec 11, 2012.

Moderators: patfan1, SirFozzie
  1. huskydeac

    huskydeac Member+

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    Until Heaps settles on a formation and style, building a team is next to impossible. A RM can mean a dozen different things on different teams. You need to know what you expect from that position in regards to the team as a whole and that's something that was missing all season. It's not always about the talent of a player, but how their talents fit into the overall scheme.
     


  2. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

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    This could be true. Our midfielders (Benny included) were unusually stagnant last year. They didn't push forward to support the forwards, and they didn't track back to support the defense. They were either unfit, or they didn't know what to do (aka no coherent playing philosophy). Either way, it's on Heaps.

    Either way, it always seemed like we had only 9 or 10 men on the field.
     
  3. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

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    To me, it didn't seem as though a case of being unfit as players. They seemed to play the same no matter the time of game or the time of season. There was a large gulf in the middle of the field, and I put that largely on tactics, and also on the inadequacy along the backline.

    In some ways this season reminded me of the 2009 season. I remember in that season there was a lot of criticism of JL and Shalrie suggesting that, at the time, they had lost a step and maybe had become less effective. However, the real problem that season was the poor play of the back line. Osei, and Badilla/Barnes especially, bypassed the midfield regularly, struggled on the ball and were caught out of position leading to deep attacking possession by the opposing team. Heaps, Albright and Alston also turned the ball over far too often on the outside.

    When I think back to that year, when this team last had a strong midfield and competent attackers, I can really see some similarities to this past season. Soares and McCarthy were largely deplorable on the ball. McCarthy especially bypassed the midfield anytime he was under pressure, or even when pressure wasn't that threatening. Then you had Tierney the turnover machine, and Alston., although having a solid year, is still sometimes a liability on the ball.

    The point is, tactically, this team is mismanaged. It is quite clear that the personal along the back line is far from being able to suite the sort of passing game the likes of Nguyen, Simms, Rowe, Guy and Toja want to play. When the backline is bypassing them, forcing them into pressure with panicked balls, and there is a large gap in the middle of the field, the midfield is going to look woefully out of place.

    There is a clear personal issue as well as a tactical issue on this team. I'm worried that 2013 will be more of the same if McCarthy and Tierney are not significantly upgraded.
     
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  4. RevsFanDan

    RevsFanDan Member

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    You know at this point in the history of this sorry franchise, I hate talking tactics..but what you said was, is and will be next year, spot on.
    The old English game of gun and run was great..because there hardly was a midfield. So balls were knocked into the opposing half where most of the players were!

    Thank the Lord we picked "Chad Barret" - Maybe, just maybe..some of the Eurosnobs will have NO IDEA who he is and think for some inexplicable reason, The Revs bought Wayne Rooney and will flock to buy season tix. LOL
     
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  5. RevsRule

    RevsRule Member

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    And Im still wondering exactly what qualifications Heaps brought to the table during the interview process?

    You don't start you coaching career as the coach of a troubled MLS franchise.... that is unless you only want to be a coach for a short time. Heaps has zero chance of turning this team around and dumping the most talented player on the team for basically NOTHING is not very smart
     
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  6. RevsFanDan

    RevsFanDan Member

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    There are many that will disagree with you...Spewing the "I believe in Heaps" motto.

    I am not one of those...
     
  7. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

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    Well, since it was my post that seems to be causing all the confustion, let me 'splain to yuze...

    1. We have an inexact set of data. The salary figures from the MLS PU are probably the best ballpark guess, but it is more complex than just adding up the numbers.
    2. There are two figures, base and guaranteed. I can't say for sure, but usually the guaranteed number is higher, so maybe that includes a portion of the signing bonus. I remember a few years ago (it may have changed since then) that bonuses were pro-rated for the length of the contract, usually 4 years. If a guy has a $50k bonus he might (or might not) get it all at once, but for the purposes of salary budget, it counts as $12,500/year for 4 years.
    3. As inexact as this data is, it is the same information for all teams. We can't know team X's exact spending, but we can see if they spent more or less than team Y.
    4. Comparing the Revs with other teams, we are constantly in the lower end of the pay spectrum.
    5. Since the Revs have been known to use allocation money to pay down high salaries of existing players (rather than to spend it on player acquisitions), it certainly suggests that there is more, not less room under the budget that other teams who have brought in new high-salried players.

    None of this is fact, but I believe it's a reasonable guess. If anyone can shed light on how all of this works (from official sources), it would clarify a lot of this.
     
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  8. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

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    1-3.) Agreed. That seems to make sense

    4.) I'm not so sure about this one. I think we see what we want to see. On the surface, it seems like we don't have much salary on the books. We only had 2.2 million at the end of last year. The issue is that we constantly hire guys like Lozano. Lozano only played a handful of games, but he cost us upwards of $120,000. Moreno took up $150,000 of our budget. All in all, we wasted $500,000 dollars of our budget last year on acquisitions that failed to live up to expectations. These were guys that weren't even on the roster this fall. We do this every year and it's a colossal waste of money.

    Bringing in a new asset is always more expensive than keeping an existing asset. How much money have we wasted on loan fees for guys like Caraglio and Moreno? That's why letting guys like Larentowicz go despite modest salary requests was so ridiculously stupid.

    5.) I assume most teams use allocation money to pay down salaries. Nearly every team has $3 million in non-DP salary on the books. They have to be using something to pay down those salaries.
     
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  9. Mike Marshall

    Mike Marshall Member+

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    This. A million times this. The problem with the Revs the past few years hasn't been so much their unwillingness to spend to the cap as it's been they're poor Player Personnel judgement. You could give Blooter and extra $10 million/year, and I still think he'd screw it up.

    And yes, we've carried "dead" cap money the past few years for players we signed during the winter, and then cut during the spring/summer. The league is not going to give the Revs a pass on the cap if they sign a waste of space. Otherwise, teams like NYRB would cycle through foreign players faster than you could say, "Sasa Curcic".
     
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  10. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

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    Another big factor in Houston's success is that they've managed to maintain a great level of continuity, even as they've had to handle serious personnel changes over the years. I think that's a factor that is greatly underestimated.

    They've never had to rip-it-up, even though some great players have come and gone. How many other MLS teams can you say that about in recent years?

    It's natural that it's going to seem illogical in the absence of most of the relevant information.
    Our off-the-ball movement is a serious weakness (and seems like it has always been). That makes it harder on anyone who has the ball and leads to things like bypassing the midfield, lumping the ball forward, playing route 1, whatever you want to call it.

    Sometimes it's players just not moving to help when they should, sometimes it's making the right run at the wrong time (or vice-versa), which is oftentimes even worse, since it leads to players out of position, creates trapping opportunities for the opposing defense or just elimination of one more potential outlet option.

    A team with good flow just seems to have an instinctive sense of what runs to make and when - and we clearly haven't gotten that yet. I think that's much more of a factor than just "our backs stink at passing the ball". It should be easy for them to make safe, reliable, high-percentage passes.
    I think that's pretty clear: enthusiasm, leadership, intelligence, energy, optimism, confidence, tenacity, ...

    The questions are whether that's enough to compensate for lack of experience and technical training (or at least carry him until he can improve in those areas).
    I'm not quite sure if you're referring to Shalrie or Benny. If it's Benny, that was considered a big deal by MLS media and as such, there was plenty of commentary. The main consensus was that the Revs did pretty well in moving a player who wasn't working out for them (and who could have left the league, leaving them zilch).

    If it's Joseph you're referring to, it was pretty clear he was in serious decline (and carrying an over-sized contract). If that weren't the case, half the teams in the league would have been lining up to bid for him.
     
  11. rkane1226

    rkane1226 Member

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    I don't think it is underestimated. This is the second time you've brought it up, the first being as a reason to make signings anytime during the year and not rush to make them in the offseason. I agree with the thought process. The only problem is that REV continuity seems to be more guys like Tierney and Guy rather than a long steady build/maintain of a quality roster. Everytime people express reservations about Heaps or Blooter I think they're voicing a fear that those guys can't achieve a great level of quality continuity. At the end, apparently, Nicol couldn't either. This has been a topic of discussion since Dempsey left. The team has not managed continuity while watching Dempsey, Dorman, Parkhurst, Twellman, Jeff L. etc. go. They've typically replaced talent with weaker talent or jettisoned promising talent after a season or less.


    Early results have trended to "it is not enough to compensate."
     
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  12. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

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  13. bwidell

    bwidell Member+

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  14. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Devin's a really good guy, and he's one of ours.
     
  15. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

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    To follow up on the tactics notion, today Benny's new teammate at SKC, Claudio Bieler, was already talking on his first day about his new team's "high press" style of play and how he's used to it at LDU Quito and will fit right in. While that remains to be seen, at least everyone is on the same page.

    What is our style? What was Jerry Bengtson told about his role in how the team played, I wonder? Or Cisse?

    While I didn't expect playoffs or anything close last year, I certainly expected Jay Heaps to begin to stamp his identity on this team with a clear tactical and philosophical plan, and that didn't happen at all.
     
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  16. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

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    I like this guy's thoughtful analyses but wow - I don't really understand the Benny mancrush.
     
  17. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

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    That's because you don't understand soccer. hiyyooooooo

    Let's face it, Benny was on a shitty team, and like other people have been in the past here, he was scape-goated as the problem. Benny is a far better player than you ever gave him credit for, and his season this year was not nearly as bad as you portrayed.
     
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  18. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

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    You just found 6 ways of saying the same thing to exaggerate a point.

    I also don't know of a single manager in the history of the game that has succeeded with this formula.
     
  19. RevsFanDan

    RevsFanDan Member

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    Man..I think your dislike of Benny almost matches my dislike of Kraft's fat thumb on his right hand. LOL

    I've stated on many many many occasions why I can't stand the plastic turf that Kraft staggers on...but, I'm not quite sure why you dislike Benny so much.
    1.) I thought when he got into games during the 2010 World Cup he played great and made the midfield look good.
    2.) Like KraftOut said, he played on a very shitty team!

    All that being said, like or dislike him, we'll all see his stock rise or crash burn next season. Anything less than 10 assists and/or some goals will be a disappointment for him personally. But, he's got much to bring. I for one, predict he won't just show up at a Revs game and have a Lee Nguyen Vancouver game. He'll show up for 40+ games!!

    But that's just me wanting every player that comes to the Revs and has some talent and isn't utilized by this SORRY organization, to SUCCEED! So I can be negative towards the team I support and love..!! =)
     
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  20. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator Staff Member

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    But no license... :D
     
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  21. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

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    I think there was more than a little sentiment for blowing this team up (i.e., that there was almost no one worth keeping) after this past season, so I don't agree with you there. And, we've had a pretty radical roster makeover over the last couple of seasons, so there is no continuity yet (if Guy and Tierney are the mainstays, that kind of makes the point).
    Pretty much.
    Early results have only confirmed how hard it is for any coach, let alone a rookie, to turn around a bottom of the table team, after 10 years of the same system with last ties to their better years aging out.

    I think changes in culture and change in the system have to happen before changes show up in results. I think Heaps has made a good start in making changes, but clearly it's still an open question about whether he's got what it takes.

    Anyone who thought this would be (or could be) a quick turnaround was probably deluding themselves. Sure, we'd all have liked to see more progress in the standings last season, but sometimes the progress doesn't show up on the scoreboard right away (the improved goal differential is clearly a positive sign).

    If we don't show better results in the first half of '13, I think things will start getting pretty hot for Heaps. Lets see what he can do with a full training camp to integrate Toja, Bengston, Cisse and whoever else they pick up in the meantime.
     
  22. Kraft Out

    Kraft Out Member+

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    This isn't about anyone wanting a short turn around. It was about bringing in an unqualified coach to try and rebuild a franchise that had hit near rock bottom on the pitch. And as rkane points out, the early results haven't been good, no matter which way you want to spin it.
     
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  23. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

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    Scapegoat? That's pretty funny actually. So, how many kittens has Bob Kraft killed this month?
     
  24. Mike Marshall

    Mike Marshall Member+

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    To be completely fair, this year (...I believe) was better than either of the past two seasons. It's at least improvement.
     
  25. LongDuckDong

    LongDuckDong Member+

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    Someone should start a poll; Will Benny crash and burn? How many assists will Benny have next season?
     
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