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Roberts Court to take on Gay Marriage Issue

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Dec 8, 2012.

  1. argentine soccer fan

    argentine soccer fan Moderator Staff Member

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  2. argentine soccer fan

    argentine soccer fan Moderator Staff Member

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    Gays fighting for the rights and responsibilities of marriage should make conservatives happy, actually. Gay marriage, once you remove the cultural homophobia and the religious aspect, should be a conservative issue. In general terms it's conservatives who see the nuclear family unit as a key pillar in society and liberals who mostly see it as an outdated obsolete institution.
     
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  3. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria Member+

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    Right, most conservatives I know love the concept of marriage. Like Gingrich, they get married 3-4 times.
     
  4. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member

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    As a former member of the religious right, I agree with most of this sentiment. However, the Pentecostal/charismatic/NAR wing of Christianity (an ethnically and racially diverse community) is highly unlikely to support gay marriage, well ever.
     


  5. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

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    So you're expecting intellectual consistency? Good luck with that.
     
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  6. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator Staff Member

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    asf, are you making a distinction between marriage and civil unions (and such tiles?)
     
  7. argentine soccer fan

    argentine soccer fan Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the fact that gays are fighting for "marriage" rather than for civil unions and equivalent legal rights is significant. By fighting for the government to legally endorse their decision to get married -as well as to adopt children, a related issue- gays are saying that they want in, and they want the government-endorsed rights and responsibilities that can enable them not only to enter into a marriage partnership but also to be able to form a nuclear family unit.

    While it is in vogue in some liberal circles to rant about the institution of marriage being archaic and oppressive and the nuclear family as being obsolete, the fact is that right here in the 21st century we have an oppressed group that wants in and is fighting to be able to enter into marriage as well as to be able to adopt and raise children. Their fight, which inevitable will succeed, can only strengthen the institution of marriage and the nuclear family unit and their role in our society.

    That is why it's so ironic that those who oppose gay marriage for whatever reason -cultural, religious- attempt to argue that granting gays the right to marry is an attack on the institution of marriage itself. DOMA in the 21st century is an anachronism. In fact, I think the best defense of marriage -and by extension of the nuclear family- that we can hope for in today's society is to make it available to gay couples.
     
  8. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

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    I realized over the last few days how important this is to me. The hope that I might be able to get married is something I haven't really allowed myself to feel. I refuse to get married symbolically and not gain the rights and privileges of straight married couples. But if the marriage were to mean something in Texas, I would make my partner my husband in a heartbeat.

    And going through this thought process makes me extremely emotional about the idea of marriage equality in a way I haven't been in the past. I have a huge personal stake in this SCOTUS decision.
     
  9. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria Member+

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    I saw a blogger recently write something like "It's time Bill Clinton apologizes for signing DOMA" I whole-heartedly agree. What a regressive, anti-civil rights POS law that is.
     
  10. billyireland

    billyireland Member+

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    What's more, don't the conservatives want 'big government' laws to stop trying to dictate our lives and how we choose to live them?
     
  11. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

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    I wonder which way Scalia is going to decide?
     
  12. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm guessing DOMA goes down 8-1 and Prop 8 goes down 7-2 with Roberts, Kennedy and Scalia following the majority on both and Alito confirming the strike down of DOMA. Only Thomas will unabashedly vote for segregation. Which is awesome because then we get one of his nonsensical minority opinions.
     
  13. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator Staff Member

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    Really? Have you read Scalia's dissent in Romer?
     
  14. Barbara

    Barbara Where is Rickon?

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    I'm pretty nervous about this particular SC taking up gay marriage.
     
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  15. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    I know the odds are against me but I wouldn't be surprised with a split, (for Prop 8, against DOMA) assuming he is going to be intellectually honest with regards to both Article 4 and the absurd standing of the GOP congress in the case which is quite the assumption.

    My feeling is that Scalia will differ to two levels of courts siding in favor of Perry knowing full well that the odds are against me. Call me an optimist.
     
  16. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator Staff Member

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    Let me know if you've retained your optimism after reading his dissent in Romer. Even Thomas's dissent is more reasoned.
     
  17. TheSlipperyOne

    TheSlipperyOne Member+

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    Here's what Scalia said in his opinion that states should be able to outlaw sodomy between two consenting adults:

    Today’s opinion dismantles the structure of constitutional law that has permitted a distinction to be made between heterosexual and homosexual unions, insofar as formal recognition in marriage is concerned.

    The people may feel that their disapprobation of homosexual conduct is strong enough to disallow homosexual marriage, but not strong enough to criminalize private homosexual acts — and may legislate accordingly, Scalia wrote. The Court today pretends that it possesses a similar freedom of action, so that that we need not fear judicial imposition of homosexual marriage.

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...ce-scalia-saw-gay-marriage-coming.php?ref=fpa
     
  18. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

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  19. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

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  20. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

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    Heard an interview with his guy on NPR over the weekend. He's a gay evangelical who's written a book called "Torn: Rescuing the Gospel From the 'Gay vs. Christian' Debate. Not saying he's going to bring the majority to his side, but it's not unanamous.

    http://www.npr.org/2012/12/09/165276593/torn-living-as-an-openly-gay-christian

    The highlights leave out the best part where he quotes liberal evangelical Tony Campolo responding to the typical "love the sinner and hate the sin" line by pointing out that Jesus was fairly consistent in teaching "love the sinner and hate your own sin."
     
  21. TheSlipperyOne

    TheSlipperyOne Member+

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    Thus, good ol' fashioned, Catholic guilt. :D
     
  22. argentine soccer fan

    argentine soccer fan Moderator Staff Member

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    That's more libertarians than conservatives, I think. It's true that a true conservative would favor limited government up to a point, but even more importantly he would want to "conserve" (preserve?) the traditional institutions in society, including marriage. And I think one good way to strengthen marriage right now is to offer it to a significant minority group -what percentage are gays, 10 % roughly at least?- that has not had access to it.

    I think that's the key difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives want to keep the traditional institutions, liberals want to revolutionize and change things. If you think of society as a tree, conservatives are the roots, liberals are the branches. We pull in different directions, but of course the tree needs both, and that's what extremists on both sides who lose the plot -like in this particular case the anti-gay crowd- need to realize.
     
  23. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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  24. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

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    I wish there was a word that I could find that describes my dislike of this song (and band, for that matter, and their annoying singer... and their technically proficient percussion that way to often gets described as the BEST EVER by people who deserve to die).

    But, it is topical to this discussion and a clever response. So I'm not gonna get violent. ;)
     
  25. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

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    Don't worry too much. Marriage equality is inevitable, it is just a matter of when.

    It's amazing that it's even this close considering the Supreme Court judges are still from the baby-boomer generation and earlier. By the time people our generation (born 1980s and later) are judges of the Supreme Court, we'll look back at this time the way we look back at the interracial marriage decisions now. Those who oppose same-sex marriage are just wasting everyone's time, including their own.
     

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