'Roca Cup' [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Denilson70, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England


  2. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
  3. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    Re: 'Roca Cup'

    Mixed thoughts on this...

    We already have had a surge of Brazil vs. Argentina confrontations since the mid-1990s. Beginning with that 1-0 win we scored at Rio da Prata's stadium in 1995, to the win they earned at Maracana in 1998, we've met them aplenty. 2 friendlies in 1999, a Copa America win for us in the same year, 2000 and 2001 WCQ confrontations. The 2004 Copa America. 2006 WCQ qualifying; the rout for us in the 2005 Confeds. The 2007 Copa America. 2010 WCQ qualifying, with us winning in Rosario. Oh, and that 2006 friendly in London right after the World Cup, with us winning 3-0.

    I understand that as we will not be in the 2014 WCQ tournament, a full-fledged Brazil-Argentina friendly may not be easy to come by.

    But wasn't this going to only include local league players? So let's see. This will happen in mid- and late September. If these matches do indeed only utilize local players, this will generate complaints by teams who are in contention in both countries' leagues.

    Second, what if someone gets injured?

    Injuries can happen even in training, but let's say Neymar is capped and suffers an injury that keeps him out of the tournament for 6 months, and he therefore misses the Club World Cup. Will Santos take comfort knowing that Neymar at least participated in Brazil beating Argentina in a reformatted, and ultimately symbolic, tournament which had been extinct since 1976, while his absence dramatically reduces Santos' chances in Japan?

    Finally, while this could potentially become big and revitalize the rivalry (which is always strong no matter what), isn't this basically a two-part fundraiser for both CBF and AFA?

    And since I'm on a roll - I don't like the name. General Julio Roca was a big figure in the history of Argentina, but the man was also responsible for a campaign which decimated thousands of indigenous southern tribesmen in Argentina. Can we perhaps name it something different? Why honor some dude who, in the name of progress, killed a lot of people? It's like having a "Copa Mussolini" or "Copa Pol Pot." (granted, both were far more violent than Roca ever was, but look it up. The man might've been a solid statesman but he wasn't exactly a pacifist or a defender of democracy.)
  4. celito

    celito Member+

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    Re: 'Roca Cup'

    European teams deal with this all the time. We can't be complaining about it too. Typically we would be playing WCQ anyways. I don't see anything wrong with it. We can't be worried about Santos CWC aspirations.


  5. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Location:
    Maryland
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    Re: 'Roca Cup'

    I'm starting to dread this Cup. I could totally cripple my teams for an important run in the Brasileirao -- and to a lesser extent, the Sul-Americana, in which we need to utilize ALL of our players in order to compete in both competitions.
  6. scabbt22

    scabbt22 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Sao Paulo FC
    Country:
    Brazil
    Re: 'Roca Cup'

    Yea in all honesty this Copa Roca is pretty stupid and makes no sense how CBF schedules these games during the Brasileirao. But then again anything that CBF does makes no sense. Another reason for Texeira to get out!

    I will only be content is if we humiliate Los Hermanos!!!
  7. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Country:
    Brazil
    Re: 'Roca Cup'

    Well our Seleção needs all the games they can get since we won't play the qualifiers, but it is not fair to cripple teams because of that. It's as if you are being punished for having quality players.

    The answer fo that is simple: STOP THE ****ING CLUB GAMES WHEN THE SELEÇÂO IS GONNA PLAY!
  8. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    Re: 'Roca Cup'

    Well said, Bakaman.
  9. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    Re: 'Roca Cup'

    .............if they can't organise fixture, how can we expect them to organise a World Cup?!
  10. leonidas

    leonidas Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Country:
    Brazil
    Re: 'Roca Cup'

    I think these games are both good and bad. It may anger the fans because their club teams will lose their top players. On the other hand, the game will be against our fierce rivals and will include only local players. And we all know how there are many Brazilians (and I assume Argentines) who are tired of all the medalhões who play in Europe.

    I guess my main worry is that this won't really help the senior team all too much, besides giving Mano some exposure to new players. As annoying as the medalhões are some time, there are few players based in Brazil who will make the team in 2014. Neymar, Ganso, Dede (most likely), and maybe a goalie or two. That's really it.

    The cynic in me also says that these games will make these players transfer targets soon after.
  11. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    Re: 'Roca Cup'

    Some times players take to Selecao football like a duck to water others; others don't. The goo thing about these games is that it send out hope to local player by giving hem a belief that they can compete for a place. Imagine playing scores of game for your club in Brazil only for players in Italy, Spain to be picked - sometimes irrespective of hat form they are in. Demoralising in a word. To be fair with Mano, he has often has 6 or so players from Brazilian clubs in the squad. I could be wrong but I imagine this will be a sell out in Belem, so that all adds to the occasion/significance for the local players.
  12. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    OK, let us try and move away from the German defeat. Calling all those with local knowledge, i.e. knowledge of the Brasileirao/players. Name your 22 for the first game on the 14th............
  13. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Location:
    Maryland
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Country:
    Brazil
    I rather not, Denilson. I fear who may be in this call-up...
  14. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    It isn't life and death you know! Come on, we disagree about most things but I can't disagree with your 22 - I do not have access to the Brasileirao - so put it here.
  15. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Country:
    Brazil
    Im trying to make my 22 list but I'm struggling a lot on some positions... Maybe we should start a list of the best players in each position first?

    GK: Victor, Fabio, Jefferson?, Felipe, Rafael? ( I reckon its a bit too soon for him)
    CBs: Dede, Henrique, ???
    RBs: Leo Moura?, Nei
    LBs: Diego Renan, Kleber, Bruno Cortês
    DMFs: Ralf, Willians
    CMFs: Arouca, Henrique
    AMFs: Ganso, Bernardo, Thiago Neves, Diego Souza
    SSs: Ronaldinho, Neymar, Dagoberto, Willian
    CFs: Borges, Kléber, Fred, Damião

    Please add more names! I need to start watching more games, I rarely watch games without Santos!
  16. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    What no Fred?!

    Bruno Cortes of Botafogo has been getting good reviews recently...........
  17. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
  18. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
  19. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    Squad to be announced on Thursday.
  20. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Location:
    USA
    The Superclássico das Américas team will be announced on Sep. 9 and 23. This means that Mano Menezes may change lineups between the two legs.
  21. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    What is you source/link please?
  22. supetram9

    supetram9 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
  23. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
  24. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England
    For those in the UK.............ESPN are showing both games live.
  25. Denilson70

    Denilson70 Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2001
    Location:
    England

Share This Page