Rodger that, over and out - OTT [R]

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by pgr17, Jan 29, 2013.

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  1. benni...

    benni... scream @ me.

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    Damn, you guys are harsh lol/.


  2. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

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    I will concede you Juve but RM was in their joke phase then. Overall the run was against weak teams though, much like our 2011 run.
  3. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

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    isnt it far too early to be making judgements about this german generations mental ability?

    the last tournament didnt help in that department.
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  4. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

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    That's true to some degree although my theory is that the players can't achieve something if they are not given the platform to. They look distrustful in Löw's system. We know they had the ability to beat Italy last summer. They weren't a weaker team but the way Löw lined them up, without practicing the formation or embedding any tactical flexibility within the team, when pressured they looked uncertain. I think a player's strength is derived from the system and the ideology that informs it and consequently them. Right now Germany are held back by the manager so it's a tough call whether these guys are up to the task mentally because we are seeing a lot of them compete very well for their clubs.


  5. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

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    Let's not let British media fappery completely negate Wilshire's value. You're talking about a 21 year old who's had injury problems versus Kroos who is two years older with twice the number of professional appearances and a 24 year old who is rapidly becoming one of the standouts of his generation and has spent the last four years playing at the top level for club and country.

    Wilshire remains a very gifted player with a significant upside. The truth is, none of you know can possibly know his career and development trajectory at this point.

    England getting collective wrist strain over a performance against Brazil and proclaiming him the "new Gazza", doesn't automatically turn him into Gareth Barry.
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  6. Diable Rouge

    Diable Rouge Member+

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    beyond tactics, isn't there also something to say about a collective rallying behind the leadership and charisma of a talisman? when italy seemed unsettled, they turned to pirlo to provide them with a sense purpose in how they play. who's that guy for germany?
  7. johno

    johno Member+

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    Barca won't even go after him. The problem with Wilshere is that he needs to develop in the next year or two, to be worth what he would cost and he probably wont kick on at Arsenal.
    If anything, we should be looking to poach more of Barca's kids. There must be someone coming through now who is staring at Iniesta, Fabregas and Thiago thinking 'there's just no way' and that's who we need to snap up at 18 or 19.
    But as we've been saying, our CM problems right now may be finding a partner for Carrick but in the medium term future we've got to consider replacing/upgrading him and adding another 2 quality players to that area as we'll be done with Scholes, Giggs and Carrick will be on his last legs.

    If we don't make a move in the next couple windows, we'll be looking at needing 3 United quality central midfielders just to stay afloat. ********ing hell.
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  8. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

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    He is being lauded as a world class player and not now since his debut season which was good but nothing great, he missed another season and now he is having another okay season nothing to write about.

    I am not sure where his trajectory will go, will he develop a shot, a goal threat, long range passing and I am not hopeful he will at Arsenal, lets see, currently Kroos is way ahead and that is the way I will gauge it until Wilshere surpass him, both are young for talented midfielders.
  9. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

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    Pretty much this, it can seriously go wrong, finding one good midfielder that suits us is hard enough, imagine 3.
    The negligence has been criminal.
  10. pgr17

    pgr17 Member+

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    let's get a new title started. who wants the honors?
  11. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

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    Nah all cool kids Underrate non united British players and rate German/Spanish ones. :p
  12. Cevno

    Cevno Member+

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  13. johno

    johno Member+

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    I agree that Tom isn't top quality. But that's right now. My gut tells me that he's going to be a very good player, but very good isn't really enough to carry the midfield on his own and that's what he'll be doing if we don't get him help.

    Part of it may be just the type of player that he is right now. He shouldn't have to shoulder the midfield before he/we know what he really is as a player as that may still change.

    The list of players we've missed out on in the last couple years is growing but the three that would have set us up for the better pat of a decade are glaring:

    Hazard, Martinez, Vidal
  14. Dhajj

    Dhajj Member+

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    Jumping in: pretty much what sir Man said.

    Our lineup will start looking like this;

    Neuer
    Lahm hummels boetang(bads) schmelzer
    Khedira kroos piggy
    Muller Ozil reus

    We have benders who can sub in anywhere, Gundogan who will be our future starter in the middle, gotze schurrle who can rotate between any of the attack..

    I think they'll keep Gomez as back up. Plan B.
  15. Diable Rouge

    Diable Rouge Member+

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    didier could eff around and win two straight CLs. don't laugh lol
  16. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

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    After Robbie Rogers brave announcement this week, this is just bad form! :eek: :p
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  17. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

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    This would be the British media fappery of which I spake.
  18. pgr17

    pgr17 Member+

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  19. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

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    Add Lucas to that, okay hazard was expensive greedy and a modern footballer but were we sleeping when bayern was in for martinez, what he cost 30 m euros, and missing out on Vidal was criminal.

    It is so stupid what we have been doing with our midfield and if we don't act now a lot of happy clappers will be in for the shock of their life.

    Alternative midfield of what we missed on or who we allowed to leave
    ----Carrick---Martinez (Vidal)---
    ----------pogba(Cleverley)


    Edit:
    Yeah I am very hopeful about cleverly being very good.
  20. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

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    Which stunts development people get too complacent think they achieved all.
  21. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

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    Sigh. Pogba over Cleverley.
  22. SyedZada

    SyedZada Member+

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    As an am yes, I would have Cleverley deeper
  23. Dhajj

    Dhajj Member+

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    Is that what they call them in England?

    Benders??

    That's funny
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  24. johno

    johno Member+

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    If we had 2 deeper mids of the quality listed in that suggested line up, it would be horses for courses. Against teams who bunker, Cleverley would get the nod. If teams are expected to play open we cry havoc and let slip the Pogs of war.

    Yes. That's the main reason I'm upset he's gone. I don't get to say that on a regular basis.
  25. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

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    That's true. Right now they don't have a leader. Neither Schweinsteiger or Lahm really are, not to me at least. They're just the seniority who play for Bayern. The question is, do teams need leaders any more or can the collective step up?

    Spain and Barcelona certainly have alpha types. Neuer is often expected to become future captain. Khedira for me is the best leader at the moment but he needs to back it up with his play, which means finishing the dozens of chances he gets at the end of. Then there's Lars Bender and Reus who could potential become leaders too but right now, totally lack of an on-field leader. Its' a deceptive argument and one older German football critics used to explain the Italy loss - where are days of "hard" players, etc. But for me that's not the argument we should be having. It's an issue but not "the" issue.
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