Roger Torres

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Union' started by Tyr, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

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    Rather than argue about Freddy, let's talk about our actual CAM for this season and the future. All accounts seem to suggest Roger is more motivated than ever, and he seems to be one of the more impressive players in training. Considering the success he has under Nowak and his popularity amongst the fans, will Roger be the missing creative piece we have lacked for most of this team's history? At the very least, I want to get the bandwagon going for one of the few remaining members of Year Zolo's opening game.


  2. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    It's got to be Torres or Marfan, right? There are no other in camp options.

    I think Michael will got the nod.
  3. UnionBulldog

    UnionBulldog Member+

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    Roger, like Freddy and everyother player needs to earn his spot. Once he gets regular minutes can he show that he can play 90 and play consistently? I like his fire but he only shows things in spurts and sometimes is either non-existent or plays poorly. The Year Zolo player who deserves a bandwagon is not Torres, it is Okugo as he appears to be the best of our three 1st rounders. Jack isn't a bad player to hitch a wagon to either.
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  4. Phillyspur

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    I appreciate the desire to change the subject from Adu. Being positive, I see Torres as potentially one of our most effective game-changers. I'd like to see him take more set pieces. He has a much more capable set of forwards to provide service to, so maybe this will be his year. On the downside, his defensive decisions can be poor (Farfan has the edge on him there IMO)


  5. UnionDues

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    And what exactly has Marfan done to deserve his spot? After all of those minutes last year, his production was lower than Freddy's, yet we are told that Marfan is the future of the club. One goal in over 2800 minutes as a CAM? That's pathetic. He puts just over 1 out of every 4 shots on frame, making his SOG % only slightly better than Danny Cruz's. He is a defensive liability with 74 fouls committed all season. He spends long stretches of games where he is completely shut down by opposing defenses and does nothing. He is simply not good enough at CAM and there is no reason to think that even playing Torres half a game wouldn't be an upgrade.
  6. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm under the impression that Torres can't go 90 and even when he is playing because of his size he just gets pushed off the ball too much against most MLS defenses. I feel Farfan doesn't have that liability.
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  7. Ascalz

    Ascalz BigSoccer Supporter

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    I would say that this is Torres' year to either step up or he'll be gone in the offseason. I like the kid but he has to prove that he can stay out on the field. As others have said I like his fire, but he gets pushed around WAY to easily.
  8. christie3

    christie3 Member

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    Say he doesn't have a breakout year. Puts out the same numbers he has. I'm too lazy to look at what kind of salary he takes up but do we talk him into lowering his salary and keeping him as depth.
  9. SOwannaB

    SOwannaB Member

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    He's around 110k I think.
  10. SmashtheVan

    SmashtheVan Member+

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    Hack will play Farfan and Cruz solely because he watches these boards and wants to make your life hell.
  11. Handsome Pete

    Handsome Pete Member+

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    Thankfully we have you supporting all Union players without complaint.
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  12. amusiccale

    amusiccale Member

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    My impression is that Marfan's skill set seems to be more that of a two-way midfielder, offering more on defense that we usually credit him for, but I'm not yet convinced he can change the game individually if/when he chooses to do so aside from the Real Madrid chip. Or he hasn't been asked to do so since his role asks him to do more linking up and tracking back. He was the team leader in fouls suffered and committed last year.

    In his [very few] games, Torres has shown flashes of the ability to change games individually, but serially over- or under- committing to tackles means that you might need to pair him with more of a straightforward midfield destroyer in the vein of, say, Newcastle's Tioté, so that the 'creative with workrate problems' type like Ben Arfa can either make magical things happen or frustrate everyone. Not sure who fits that role -- Okai?
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  13. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

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    Though to be fair, why should we depend on our CAM to defend? That's not his job, and it's why we will have 2 CDM starting. Roger should be leading the attack and offering an outlet when we win the ball, not tracking back constantly.
  14. G-Ho Blue

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    Early guesses seem to indicate that the midfield three are Okugo-Carroll-Marfan. I could see Torres used effectively as a sub for Okugo in the 2nd half of games. It gives him a tired defense to try to break through, at least.
  15. UnionBulldog

    UnionBulldog Member+

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    While he hasn't had the offensive production you would want from a CAM I can't see how you think Farfan was a defensive liability. Farfan is better suited to playing in a 4-3-3 than Torres because he does play defense and there is more stress on the mids. Part of Marfan's problems last year was getting double teamed or nobody getting to his passes as well as getting thrust into the middle when he was a wide player. He improved as the season went on.
  16. KensingtonSC

    KensingtonSC I Hate Freedom

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    He, and his 74 fouls committed, hustles back and plays "defense".

    Wait, I'm confused. We don't want to depend on our CAM to defend, but we don't Freddy Adu on our team because he can't defend. I'm trying to turn this into a Freddy vs. Michael Farfan debate again, but if your choices for leading the attack through the center of midfield and not playing defense are Freddy Adu, Michael Farfan and Roger Torres, how can anyone say that Freddy wouldn't be the best option?

    Roger's a good super-sub option when the defense is tired, just like Hoppenot. You don't want him starting though because he's not physical enough and everyone runs at the same speed as him from the start of the game, as Roger's not all that fast. If your two choices are Michael Farfan and Torres to start the game, then you have to start Farfan.
  17. UnionDues

    UnionDues Member+

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    Too many excuses for this guy, and when you consider that he was far more productive in fewer minutes on the right in '11, the team ought to be looking for other options at CAM. The Adu stupidity eliminates Freddy as an option, so that just leaves Torres.
    He's done fine when starting before. I would like to see him start if he's fit to do so. Hack was quoted as saying his fitness was the best he'd ever seen him at. That means something coming from Hack, since Hack apparently values work ethic and fitness above all else (see Cruz, Danny).
  18. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe Farfan isn't the answer, but he is a better answer than Torres at this point. Can Union afford to have Torres on the bench?
  19. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

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    Find a single instance of me complaining of Freddy not playing defense. I'll wait right here.

    Except Roger can actually pull the strings of the attack, something Michael was incredibly poor at last year, going invisible for most of the game. Roger has the vision, creativity, and ball skills in the center of the pitch that Michael lacks. We shouldn't be choosing between the two as Michael is not a starting caliber CAM, he is a RM. Why not play them both and bench Cruz?

    Is he? Michael showed last year he can't play centrally. He can't play the probing pass. He can't draw defenders in to generate space for other players. He can't dribble in tight spaces like Roger. All Michael has going for him in the center of the pitch is stamina but stamina does not win you the game.

    For the record, I think Marfan is a very good option out wide. His skill set better fits a wide position than the center of the pitch, and we should play him there rather than trying to force a square peg into a round hole.
  20. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    I do think Torres is better at finding the right pass at the right time than Marfan can. However, as I stated earlier, Roger probably still can't last 90 and he gets pushed off the ball way too much, so much that he rarely gets a chance to pass it. This turns into frustration for him and then he does silly fouls which only make it tougher for him and his club.
  21. UnionBulldog

    UnionBulldog Member+

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    Is Roger the answer in a 4-3-3? Can he defend like you need a mid to do when playing that formation? If we are going with a 4-4-2 diamond then Roger is the better option at CAM but initial reports are a 3 fwd line of Casey, Seba and Jack is the primary look. That means no CAM position and the likely setup of the midfield will be a rotating triangle of Okugo Marfan and Carroll. This will allow Michael to play centrally or out wide depending on the current rotation. They used this at times last season but the other mids were usually Lahoud and Carroll and neither one is very good going forward into the final 1/3. Having Okugo and actual forwards that will make defenses play honest should give Farfan more room to work.

    In order for Roger to see the field he is going to have to show more than Farfan, Okugo or Jack. He can't defend like either Okugo or Farfan can so that makes it less likely that he will supplant either one so that leaves it between him and Jack. jack is going to be the better option in the final 1/3 but Roger brings the creative play in the final half.
  22. Dills

    Dills Moderator Staff Member

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  23. drewuke

    drewuke Member+

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  24. Tyr

    Tyr Member+

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    Nice selective reading and quoting. I said in tight spaces. He's better dribbling on the wing (which, surprise, surprise he is doing in this video) where he has space to beat his man. Find me any video of him dribbling past someone while in the center of the pitch. I'm disappointed in you with this one Dills.



    Notice the difference. Roger is largely in the middle of the field while all of Marfan's highlights are on one of the wings. Roger can keep the ball and dribble in tight spaces better than Michael.

    No, just no to cheerleaders. We really need to get past that in sports.
  25. Dills

    Dills Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh noes ...

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