RSL player salaries, cap conditions, international slots, etc...

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by rslfanboy, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

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    From http://www.mlsplayers.org/salary_info.html:
    This means that this is the MLS-only contract info. Teams could actually be paying more for their players. They could be using allocation to buy down salaries against the cap. There could be other things that not many of us are aware of.
    Code:
                                       2010    2010 Guaranteed
    Club Last Name   First    Pos  Base Salary  Compensation
    RSL  Alexandre   Jean     M   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    RSL  Beckerman   Kyle     M   $ 250,000.00 $ 250,000.00
    RSL  Beltran     Anthony  D   $  75,000.00 $ 110,500.00
    RSL  Borchers    Nat      D   $ 140,000.00 $ 147,500.00
    RSL  Campos      Pablo    F   $  78,750.00 $  83,596.72
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Espindola   Fabian   F   $  75,000.00 $  75,000.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Findley     Robert   F   $  73,566.00 $  87,316.00
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Gil         Luis     M   $  85,500.00 $ 180,583.33[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Gonzalez    Nelson   M-F $  40,008.00 $  40,008.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Grabavoy    Ned      M   $ 105,000.00 $ 105,000.00
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Horst       David    D   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  McKenzie    Rauwshan D   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Melia       Tim      GK  $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Morales     Javier   M   $ 200,000.00 $ 252,500.00[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Nimo        Alex     F-M $  75,000.00 $ 108,000.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Olave       Jamison  D   $ 225,000.00 $ 240,000.00
    RSL  Reynish     Kyle     GK  $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    RSL  Rimando     Nick     GK  $ 120,000.00 $ 131,000.00
    RSL  Russell     Robbie   D-M $ 114,000.00 $ 119,751.43
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Saborio     Alvaro   F   $ 120,000.00 $ 128,125.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Schuler     Chris    D   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    RSL  Warner      Collen   MF  $  40,000.00 $  43,750.00
    RSL  Williams    Andy     M   $  88,200.00 $  88,200.00
    RSL  Wingert     Chris    D   $ 125,000.00 $ 125,000.00
    
    Totals                       $2,029,524.00 $2,039,747.15
                                 [COLOR=Red]$  240,500.00[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red]$  368,583.33[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red](Do not apply)[/COLOR]
    Cap                          $2,550,000.00
    
    Difference                  [SIZE=6][COLOR=Blue]+[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=6][COLOR=Blue]$520,476[/COLOR][/SIZE]
    20 of these count against the cap. Those in red don't. Green are the International slots. I think we are at 6 available slots. I'm sure I'm missing a couple, with Paulo, and possibly Alexandre and Campos. I can't remember their status right now. Alexandre most likely has a green card at least since he's from Haiti. Please contribute.

    I'm thinking Horst and Nimo in red because they are on loan, and Gil due to Generation Adidas. I chose Melia as the 4th, because any of those $40k salaries would be equal. I'm not exactly sure who it would be.

    Missing from this list would be Paulo Araujo. Horst and Nimo shouldn't count against the roster because they are on season-long loans. I guess Paulo's fee would be next to nothing seeing that he came so late to the team, and from a lower US league.

    The roughly $500,000 not accounted for....? Your guess is as good as mine. We have in the past been using just base salary to count against the cap. I don't know how the guaranteed salary counts, nor how player performance incentives count either. They probably don't.

    What's up with allocation? Who knows?

    As per the new CBA the cap goes up 5% each of the next 5 years, then that would make it about:

    2010 $2.55mil
    2011 $2.68mil ~$130k difference
    2012 $2.81mil ~$130k difference
    2013 $2.95mil ~$140k difference
    2014 $3.10mil ~$150k difference

    I'm thinking that RSL will add another 6 players next year to hit the 30 required for the reserve league. None of those will count against the cap, and they will probably all be $40k contracts, except for 2-3 homegrown players who will get about $30k or so. None of this towards the cap, mind you....

    Mods, please close capologist wetdream thread and link to here.


  2. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

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    Here are some more relevant posts from the previous thread:
    Teams have to be cap compliant, aka set for the season, roughly a month before the season begins. mlsplayers.org publishes the salaries around mid April.

    RSL only has 6 International slots where everyone else has a base of 8. I'll bet that the Crapids and Chivas are still holding onto those slots and have 9. We received a temporary international slot with the Movsisyan trade, yet that expired at the end of 2009.

    This helps account for some of the cap discrepancy. Loan fees aren't included in the base salary. It's hard to get good info on the transfer and loan fees. Most teams use allocation to buy down those fees.



    Lastly, allocation $$$ is a big part of cap considerations, and acquiring USMNT players from other clubs in particular. There seems to be both an allocation order for returning USMNT players and an actual dollar amount.

    We used up a bunch to get Borchers and pay down the cap in 2009. I have no idea what is going on with allocation anymore.

    Drew Epperly at wvhooligan.com tries to keep track of the order. A great article on allocation is found here at majorleaguesoccertalk.com
  3. QuibblingNonesuch

    QuibblingNonesuch Member+

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    Apparently winning the cup last year added bonuses that count against the cap. Talk about discouraging progress.
  4. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

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    Really? Where do you get that info? I was under the impression that only the base salary + loan/transfer fees count against the cap, and player incentives do not. If the incentives did count against the cap, then a team could break the cap as the season progresses if a player performs well. That doesn't seem to make sense.

    Winning the cup definitely retarded our allocation accumulation, but it didn't count against the cap.


  5. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT BigSoccer Supporter

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    What a boring thread title... :(
  6. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    I was told at some point that RSL now has all 8 slots back, due to the restructuring of the CBA. I want to say it was KIR or Trey from the Front Office that told me that.

    Enjoy.
  7. realsparta

    realsparta Member

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    Am I missing something, where is Will?
  8. Allez RSL

    Allez RSL Member+

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    That would be nice.
  9. QuibblingNonesuch

    QuibblingNonesuch Member+

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    Garth's lips at the STH meetings. It was his lament.

    I agree, it does seem to be a counter-productive thing.

    He's very cap-conscious this off-season...I can't imagine that won't impact DP or protection conversations or both in some way or another.

    But like others have said, Kreis and Lagerway are doing extremely well at finding players in Europe, USL, etc...and the draft picks of late have had some winners (Schuler, Beltran, Warner).

    We're fortunate to be fans of a team with excellent management.
    </schill>
  10. kirsoccer

    kirsoccer BigSoccer Supporter

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    Good job rslfanboy - you pulled together most of the relevant info. Here are a couple of things I can add:

    1) the allocation order list you referenced has nothing to do with allocation money. It's very confusing, but allocation is used for two different things: one, an allocation draft for returning player; and two, a pool of money that a team can use to acquire new players. The second link (on allocation money) is quite good.

    2) I'm hearing whispers that international spots are going to be increased. I haven't heard that RSL was restored the full 8, but that they weren't worried about that because of the coming changes anticipated.

    3) For Saborio, Paulo Jr, and Gonzalez there are almost certainly significant dollars for loan fees not included in this list.

    Also, I've gotten the sense that since the beginning of the year (and especially with the $200K cap increase with the CBA), that Lagerwey had set aside some cap space to allow RSL the possibility of getting a new deal done for Sabo or Findley during this season. So I would expect that we might have some available cap space, but I'd expect it to be in the $200K range.

    I have no idea how much, if any, allocation money we are currently using on acquisition fees, or if there are any past acquisition costs (Morales, Olave, Espindola) that are still being amortized. I suspect that some of each is still at play.
  11. RSL Punk 2

    RSL Punk 2 Member

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    Are we paying Will Johnson in (nicotine) gum? Why isn't his salary on that list?
  12. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT BigSoccer Supporter

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    I suspect that in the cut and paste it was missed. His name is at the top of a page. His Guaranteed salary is 89,891.43.

    I'm going to make a guess about Paulo... $40,000 league minimum. Is there any information out there that suggests otherwise?
  13. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

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    Changed to include Will Johnson (oops).
    Code:
                                       2010    2010 Guaranteed
    Club Last Name   First    Pos  Base Salary  Compensation
    RSL  Alexandre   Jean     M   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    RSL  Beckerman   Kyle     M   $ 250,000.00 $ 250,000.00
    RSL  Beltran     Anthony  D   $  75,000.00 $ 110,500.00
    RSL  Borchers    Nat      D   $ 140,000.00 $ 147,500.00
    RSL  Campos      Pablo    F   $  78,750.00 $  83,596.72
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Espindola   Fabian   F   $  75,000.00 $  75,000.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Findley     Robert   F   $  73,566.00 $  87,316.00
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Gil         Luis     M   $  85,500.00 $ 180,583.33[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Gonzalez    Nelson   M-F $  40,008.00 $  40,008.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Grabavoy    Ned      M   $ 105,000.00 $ 105,000.00
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Horst       David    D   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Johnson     Will     F   $  76,320.00 $  89,891.43
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  McKenzie    Rauwshan D   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Melia       Tim      GK  $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Morales     Javier   M   $ 200,000.00 $ 252,500.00[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Nimo        Alex     F-M $  75,000.00 $ 108,000.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Olave       Jamison  D   $ 225,000.00 $ 240,000.00
    RSL  Reynish     Kyle     GK  $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    RSL  Rimando     Nick     GK  $ 120,000.00 $ 131,000.00
    RSL  Russell     Robbie   D-M $ 114,000.00 $ 119,751.43
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Saborio     Alvaro   F   $ 120,000.00 $ 128,125.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Schuler     Chris    D   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    RSL  Warner      Collen   MF  $  40,000.00 $  43,750.00
    RSL  Williams    Andy     M   $  88,200.00 $  88,200.00
    RSL  Wingert     Chris    D   $ 125,000.00 $ 125,000.00
    
    Totals                       $2,065,844.00 $2,089,638.58
                                 [COLOR=Red]$  280,500.00[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red]$  408,583.33[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red](Do not apply)[/COLOR]
    Cap                          $2,550,000.00
    
    Difference                  [SIZE=6][COLOR=Blue]+[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=6][COLOR=Blue]$484,156[/COLOR][/SIZE]
    20 of these count against the cap. Those in red don't. Green are the International slots.

    The difference between base and guaranteed is roughly $130k, so that would take the difference closer to $350k. Assuming Quibbling is correct and player incentives are included, I have no idea where that leaves us.

    If realslfan is correct with the $200k number under the cap, then that means the $130k cap increase might account for a good part of the flexibility. That means we'd only have to be $70k under the current cap.

    That puts the fuzzy stuff in the $400k to $350k range. Wow.
  14. kirsoccer

    kirsoccer BigSoccer Supporter

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    I would guess that Sabo and Gonzo's loan fee's were substantial. I have no idea on Paulo Jr, but suspect its very minor. Total guess but maybe $200-400K for Sabo, $100-200K for Gonzo. Gonzo's loan fee is likely spread over this year and next for cap purposes. I also suspect that there may be something still nominal for Olave and Morales' acquisition that counts against the cap (maybe $50-$100K each). Not surprised by these numbers at all.

    On the high side, these items could add up to as much as say $600-700K, although I suspect the total of all of these is more in the $300-400K range.
  15. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

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    im confused about what you mean by "fuzzy stuff", im not shocked we are 400k+ below the salary cap, we've always been one of the lower spending teams in the league. we dont have to spend the total salary cap you know. its actually a good thing that we are below it right now since we are going to have spend some serious dough to keep sabo and other players next year.
  16. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

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    "Fuzzy stuff" = transfer/loan fees. Those aren't reported.

    I'm beginning to think that the cap is based off of guaranteed $$$ + transfer/loan fees + performance incentives. Maybe a certain amount of allocation $$$ is required to be held by a club so that they can pay up if the team's players hit the max performance payout.

    If that's the case, then the team was really only $55k under the cap and allocation had to be used to cover the transfer + loan fees and performance incentives.

    Maybe I should try to get confirmation about which number is actually used. OR, maybe realslfan should because he's always hanging out with the staff... eh? eh? :D
  17. kirsoccer

    kirsoccer BigSoccer Supporter

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    I've always been told...neither. Which makes sense, because we know you have to account for loan fees, acquisition fees, etc.

    However, it's hard to imagine that its not the total guaranteed compensation that's used as the starting point. Otherwise a team could just give huge signing bonuses to circumvent the cap.
  18. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator Staff Member

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    Well the cap is based off guaranteed not total salary, when looking at the MLS Players Association list. But I am not sure if they "have" to factor the incentives and loan-fees to make the total or if they are supposed to add those amounts on the top of the entire roster's total guarantee.

    Hence the Fuzzy stuff/Math comment.
  19. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

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    Changed to reflect cap minus guaranteed instead of cap minus base. Reduces the number by about $24k. Transfer/loan fees are not included and performance incentives are likely not included, and those will bring the number much closer to the cap.

    Transfer/loan fees are divided evenly over the term of the player contract. For example, If Javi's transfer fee was $600k and he was signed for 3 years, then $200k per year would hit the cap. Keep that in mind when considering Sabo's contract... We'd have him for a LONG time, at least 4-5 years, to afford that $1million buyout.
    Code:
                                       2010    2010 Guaranteed
    Club Last Name   First    Pos  Base Salary  Compensation
    RSL  Alexandre   Jean     M   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    RSL  Beckerman   Kyle     M   $ 250,000.00 $ 250,000.00
    RSL  Beltran     Anthony  D   $  75,000.00 $ 110,500.00
    RSL  Borchers    Nat      D   $ 140,000.00 $ 147,500.00
    RSL  Campos      Pablo    F   $  78,750.00 $  83,596.72
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Espindola   Fabian   F   $  75,000.00 $  75,000.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Findley     Robert   F   $  73,566.00 $  87,316.00
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Gil         Luis     M   $  85,500.00 $ 180,583.33[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Gonzalez    Nelson   M-F $  40,008.00 $  40,008.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Grabavoy    Ned      M   $ 105,000.00 $ 105,000.00
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Horst       David    D   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Johnson     Will     F   $  76,320.00 $  89,891.43
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  McKenzie    Rauwshan D   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Melia       Tim      GK  $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Morales     Javier   M   $ 200,000.00 $ 252,500.00[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Red]RSL  Nimo        Alex     F-M $  75,000.00 $ 108,000.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Olave       Jamison  D   $ 225,000.00 $ 240,000.00
    RSL  Reynish     Kyle     GK  $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    RSL  Rimando     Nick     GK  $ 120,000.00 $ 131,000.00
    RSL  Russell     Robbie   D-M $ 114,000.00 $ 119,751.43
    [COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]RSL  Saborio     Alvaro   F   $ 120,000.00 $ 128,125.00[/COLOR]
    RSL  Schuler     Chris    D   $  40,000.00 $  40,000.00
    RSL  Warner      Collen   MF  $  40,000.00 $  43,750.00
    RSL  Williams    Andy     M   $  88,200.00 $  88,200.00
    RSL  Wingert     Chris    D   $ 125,000.00 $ 125,000.00
    
    Totals                       $2,065,844.00 $2,089,638.58
                                 [COLOR=Red]$  280,500.00[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red]$  408,583.33[/COLOR] [COLOR=Red](Do not apply)[/COLOR]
    Cap                                        $2,550,000.00
    
    Difference                  [SIZE=6][COLOR=Blue]+[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=6][COLOR=Blue]$460,361.42[/COLOR][/SIZE]
    20 of these count against the cap. Those in red don't. Green are the International slots.
  20. kirsoccer

    kirsoccer BigSoccer Supporter

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    I've done my own analysis, and too lazy to replicate the whole thing here. With the CBA dictated increases and some of the miscellaneous nuances, I think we are going to see some moves dictated by salary cap motives. I also think it's going to be unlikely to see Sabo and Findley both return.

    Also, I found out that bonuses for year-end awards also count against next year's cap (Newcomer of the Year, Defender of the Year, Best Eleven).

    On a positive note, Garbers announcement today about potential allocation $$ relief for Champions League participants could help.

    This is more or less true, but I believe technically they are pro-rated over the contract. So if in the example above Javi had a 3 year contract and 25% of the total contract was paid in year 1, then 25% of the acquisition cost would be charged in that year. The only reason I bring that up is that it's somewhat common for a player to get a signing bonus that front-ends some of their contract value. This is a potential possibility with Sabo.
  21. Allez RSL

    Allez RSL Member+

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    That's annoying. These aren't controlled by the team, and so couldn't be reasonably used as potential compensation. They shouldn't count toward the cap.

    When I get elected as Don Garber, this will be my first change. Also, the ears.
  22. smackdowntay

    smackdowntay Member

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    Couldn't agree with you more. Theres nothing more annoying than that. Punish the team for their players doing well? And dont get me started about those ears, gwosh forget about it.
  23. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Member+

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    and you criticized me for being mad at gingers...?:D
  24. Steve H.

    Steve H. Member

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    I don't know if any of you follow hockey, but the Chicago Blackhawks got brutalized under the cap because they had to pay a $1.3 million bonus to Jonathan Toews for winning the playoff MVP award.

    It's very bittersweet.
  25. kirsoccer

    kirsoccer BigSoccer Supporter

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    Jun 29, 2007
    Yes, but in that case it was okay, because it was the Blackhawks.;)

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