Sebastian Lletget at West Ham

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Academy' started by JohnR, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    Right. I haven't seen him lately (he was clearly a cut above then) but from what I've heard from other coaches, the kid is clearly the best in his age group in Cal-North. So I think its fair to say the kid is one of the best soccer players in the US at 13, yet according to you there are hundreds just like him.

    But when their U20's (which they won the tournament thanks to Messi being on the field and not on the bench) played our U20's they lose. So I guess what Argentina needs to do is start sending all those hundreds of superstars to recreation like High School environments for a 1/4 of each year like we do in the US instead often having them reduce their amount of time in school and wasting it by practicing every day in professional facilities under the eyes of a professional coaching and training staff. Maybe then, the US won't be able to gain ground so quickly during the HS years as you suggest must be happening.


  2. Shaydee

    Shaydee Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    Location is a factor but prestige is more so. Why do you think a guys leave London clubs like Charlton for Manchester United's youth teams?? It's not because of location, it's because of prestige. If a young London player has interest from Southampton and Watford most will see that Southampton has a better reputation for producing young talent and will take the chance to move down south.
  3. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial


    Jermaine Defoe was in the Charlton youth system before West Ham signed him.

    I see Hammerette covered this.
  4. purojogo

    purojogo Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    you are reducing this issue to the outcome of the Argentina-US match?...you are being sarcastic, i assume.... For that matter, the best team in that tournament, over all the games played in it, was Argentina, and they took the crown....


  5. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    They weren't appreciably better than the U.S. aside from Messi.

    It is inconceivable that Argentina has 100s of players at each age level as good as one of the top 5 kids in the U.S. If so, Argentina's U17s would beat us about 8-0, rather than it generally being a fairly even match.
  6. purojogo

    purojogo Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    In Argentinq's defense, i don't think i saw many Peterson's - i think that was his name- lookalikes... :) And perhaps it is unfair to base comparisons on the one game where Messi was in for 45 minutes, as after that, Messi seemed to just make all his teammates better.... Had he gotten the start from the getgo, maybe we would not be able to appreciate how much his teammates raised their level due to his presence....

    But the issue brought up at first was the # of 13 y/o that perhaps had tthe same degree of skill as this YA kid...

    I have no numbers nor sources, but in my brief recollection from the last 2-3 years.. Aguero example come to mind, someone with far less fanfare than Freddy, who made its debut in club soccer only 3-4 months after Freddy did (age wise) and now is a player who belongs to Atletico Madrid... And even then we are talking of 14-15 y/o..and this YA kid is just 13....

    Or even Messi, whom iirc, went to Barcelona at the young age of 13...and we now know where he is at...such potential still to be developed...an amazing player as it is already....
  7. Shaster

    Shaster Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    I do think that Argentina does have 100s of such players. Of course, how many of them develop and turn out great is another story. Just with raw talent is not enough, better coaching, good personality, good work rate, and even a bit of luck, etc.

    Heck, I even think that USA may potentially have that many good materials. But if we just look on the body type, Maradona, Messi, Trevez, Samiola (sp?), etc. will be dropped out of US system around 13.
  8. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    Even as a frequent ODP critic, I doubt that our system would cut players of those abilities. Heck, our State sent a 4' 9" 13 year old to a national camp, and while he's a talented player he's no Messi or Maradona. So I think that those guys would have been treated just fine by ODP.
  9. tincho

    tincho New Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    I saw Sebastian play recently against my son. I had lunch with his parents afterwards. We all agree that in Argentina Sebastian was one more in a dozens of fabulous players that River Plate had. To be honest, is not just raw talent. It is coaching, physical trainers (how many clubs here have them?), soccer training, competitiviness, tradition, passion, understanding of the game, dedication that make the difference. If you take the best say 9-10 yo to Argentina and have them play there for 5-6, years they will be better players than if they stayed in the US.
    To compare youth development in Argentina with US based on one U-20 game is plain silly. For that matter,Argentina won the U-20 cup 5 times (more than Brazil who has 4), has hundreds of players in every league of the world. In my opinion, as far as youth development, is Brazil and Argentina and then everybody else.
  10. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    We would improve a lot if we could take 9 or 10 of their coaches and implement them across the board.

    John Ellinger coached our youth acadamy for 6 years and we couldn't complete three passes in a row. We were made to look like fools veruses the Spain's, Frances, Brazils's etc as they toyed with us technically and tactically.

    He would have got 2 years more but RSL snatched:rolleyes: him away where he has continued to prove his incompetence.

    Head of one of our most important instituitions, a pro coach and no clue. Need I say more?

    Donut Boy, admitted by himself and his players, to not be an X's and O's guy (meaning he doesn't get tactics, adjustments and subs to save his life - just has no idea how to read a game) is our most successfull and most respected:confused: coach.

    Need I say more.

    We used to be a country with a talent vacuum.

    We are now a country with a clear coaching vacuum.

    Difference is we can do something about this, but I'm sure we won't.

    Depressing.
  11. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    I've never seen any evidence that completing 3 passes in a row was particularly important to those guys. My friend who has a son on a '91 Regional ODP squad says that his son's team sometimes goes several minutes at a time without completing 3 straight passes. Kick it to the big fast dude up top.
  12. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    Don't do that. I just want to go nuts.

    Damn, I rage on the internet and I am always the rational one otherwise.

    Do we really not comprehend this stuff that completely as a soccer country?
    I just can't believe it.
  13. johnboys

    johnboys New Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    we really need to teach our kids to pass the ball around, use the wings,,,i'm so sick of tired that everybody who gets the ball including my over 30 taem which is a great team, just try to put the ball over the top every time,,,please play soccer, keep it simple the chances will come
  14. tincho

    tincho New Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    Mr. Zoidberg,
    thank you for your comments! It is depressing but we can change it, our kids can learn.
    I (with partners in Argentina) have a soccer school and we do "camps", clinics and tours. If you would like to talk to us, please do: argentinasoccerschool.com

    It is my impression that in the United States we have two things going against youth development (actually one root: coaching vacuum as you wisely call it):
    a tradition of "old and past" Northern European soccer brought by Brits, Scots, and others in the 60 and 70, that forces our kids to play a style that even England doesn´t play anymore (they realized 10-15 years ago that they would never win anything again if not change or add more resources). The other factor that I see is that we have too many coaches that are in their young 20's, "retired" after college, with huge egos (typical of the age), that should be playing not yet coaching for they have not mastered all the mental parts of the game.

    Europeans look constantly to Argentina and Brazil for new ways of teaching kids and we still look to Europe for coaching. or as Paul Gardner wrote recntly: "the MLS had no brazilian players but 3 New Zealanders!" Crazy!
  15. ClarkC

    ClarkC Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    The current English and Scottish style is not too pretty, either.

    In the same Paul Gardner column you mentioned, he questioned why we want to bring the Scottish style to MLS. The example cited was Steve Nicol, who takes a load of offensive talent and produces boredom at New England. Yet, he is high on everyone's list to replace Bruce Arena. Go figure.
  16. monop_poly

    monop_poly Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    Club soccer is getting much better ... and fast. Highly technical coaching from Eastern Europe and elsewhere. The best clubs I occassionally see emphasize a passing game. I see this problem resolving itself over time.
  17. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    The coaching background depends upon the region. In Chicago, the coaches at the top clubs are mostly Eastern European immigrants and American college types. No Brits/Scots to speak of. Elsewhere, it can be quite different.
  18. voros

    voros Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    Nicol is also responsible for acquiring that load of offensive talent. He didn't beat a mad rush in the draft to get Dempsey, Noonan or Shalrie Jospeh, he simply was better able to identify talent than the folks who drafted before him.
  19. the Next Level

    the Next Level Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    ... anymore. When I was coming up it was ALL Brits/Scots/Irish and Germans. The current guys have played them out through basic competition in the open market.

    Yes, the market is correcting itself.
  20. Palermo10

    Palermo10 Member

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    So put him in the front office, not on the touchline ;)
  21. sidefootsitter

    sidefootsitter Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    It's actually Dr. Zoidberg.

    [​IMG]
  22. FirstStar

    FirstStar Hustlin' for the USA

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    So . . . any news on the trial at WHU?
  23. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    Back to a semi-tangential but (to me) highly relevant issue: With 2 million Mexican-American kids (OK, I don't know the exact number, but it's a lot) trying to be great young soccer players in the U.S., why is Sebastian Argentinian?

    I mean, I saw his club team, aside from Sebastian I bet that almost all those guys are Mexican-American, as is the case throughout California for the top squads. There must be 100 Mexican-Americans for every Argentinian-American. Or more. So why not one of the Mexican-Americans?

    The question is related to watching a Chicago U15 Hispanic league game last night. Good skills, excellent anticipation .... these kids have played soooo much soccer that they have an instinctive feel for where the ball is heading. But the combination play was primitive, nothing like what Sebastian is doing as a 13 year old. And in truth, it was one of the most tactically sophisticated Hispano league games I have seen, which is a bit like talking about the tallest munchkin.

    There's something missing. I don't mean just in Chicago Hispano leagues, I mean throughout the U.S. We have kids who play a lot of ball. We have matches on TV. We have -- and many of these Hispanic league kids have, because many also play suburban ball -- professional coaches. So why do we have to have a kid from Argentina to show us how things are done tactically?
  24. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    From a recent article on Soccernet:

    "The United States has made remarkable progress the last 15 years -- the recent World Cup notwithstanding -- but if there is one strategic mistake still holding back U.S. soccer, it is an unhealthy fixation with English game.

    Most foreign soccer coaches in this country come from the British school, while the majority of promising American players grow up dreaming of playing in the Premier League. For their part, fans in America clearly identify with the EPL above all else."


    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=375991&root=mls&cc=5901
  25. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

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    Re: 13 Year Old Yank gets West Ham Trial

    The answer is very complicated, but it relates to a fork in the road that the two countries took a long time ago. Argentina banned bull-fighting and developed a taste for polo. Bull-fighting remained a major part of Mexican culture. Also the socio-economic backgrounds of Argentinian immigrants to the US is much different from Mexican immigrants. Would be a good PhD dissertation topic but I don't have time to do it. There must be some desperate graduate student around here looking for a good topic. I would be willing to serve as unofficial advisor.

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