Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by TexSocFan, Mar 21, 2012.
Once again good luck filling a venue that size, let alone finding a place for it.
I agree with much of what you've said, but I think if one is dispassionate about it (which isn't easy because MLS has already failed there once), Miami is a better market than Orlando. It's got more disposable income, it's a bigger TV market (16th) and it is a bigger city for international commerce. It's close, but I'd rank it higher.
To me, it's
New York 2
Miami slightly over Orlando (but probably not both at this time)
and a third, fourth and fifth team to be determined.
Honestly, after these three none of the markets with sufficient disposable income jump off the page as a market MLS has to have for teams 22-24 IMO.
But the real story here is that if you really just look at the data, you can see why MLS likes NY for an expansion team over virtually any other city fans and posters will typically suggest.
I agree with everything you've said definitely. My list was just a prediction of the order which teams will be admitted. Orlando's got the owners and is working hard on a stadium (and a heck of a fanbase). New York and Miami are missing pieces to the puzzle (New York a stadium, Miami both an owner and a stadium).
Back on topic, no. The NY2 stadium's intial capacity should not exceed 30k. Stadia are made expandable for this reason.
Double post, disregard.
Is this one point really worth ignoring the glaring history of Miami as a sports market ?
I apologize that we've moved this thread far from the New York topic. AmeriSnob has started a thread on this in the Expansion Forum to continue this discussion, and I'll be glad to talk about it there.
Until the New York Red Bulls start selling out their games, another team in NY shouldn't be in discussion. On a Saturday, the NYRB were only able to get 13,415 to their game. http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2012-03-31-ny-v-mtl/stats
Remember that the NYRB did not sell out every game last year.
Yawn. It pains me to have to point out something that is common knowledge among a bunch of cave-dwelling, semi-literate religious fanatics in AfPak, but New York City is the media capital of the world. Anything that happens on this planet that occurs within 20 miles of downtown Manhattan is (numbers approximate) 3.72 kajillion times more likely to be covered than if it happens anywhere else. This conceivably could perhaps might just possibly be something that factors in to MLS' feelings about NY2 being different than yours...
Aside from which is this weird logic that because a crappy organization can't excel in NY, nobody else could either. If Chivas were the first/only team in LA, their incompetence would hardly be a reason to not create the Galaxy.
PS--Thanks for the attendance numbers! Someone needs to pick up the Hotline to MLSHQ and let them know that the Red Bulls don't sell out their stadium. Who knew?!
As far as the actual topic goes, 20-30K, anywhere in the five boroughs, would be a major triumph and a real feather in the cap pf the league. Leaving room for capacity expansion is great, but not nearly as important as getting the stadium built in the first place.
based on that logic, the NYRB attendance should be #1 in the league.
What's with FC New York's attendance? The stadium they play in has a capacity of 5,000.
Let me just add that 5 Bourough Boys calling for a 2nd NYC club is not being heralded by the masses.. While NY is truly a great soccer town, half the fans won't come to a MLS match and the other half are only fair weather fans or part timers... Not to knock anyone for coming, but in all seriousness the mass cries for a NY2 are not ringing in the city... Seattle, Portland, Montreal, etc.. all had larger supporters clubs in place... I'm telling you a handful of Bourough Boys is not a joke.. truth be told Don Garber simply has a massive erection thinking of a NY club playing across the street from his office, but now he is realizing its not as simple so he's pushing it anywhere he can (well Staten Island is out) whether that be Brooklyn, LI, Queens, etc.. You start showing me some true support for a 2nd NY club or your going to end up with a first few well attended matches and than RB and NY2 splitting the MLS fan in the area once the newness and cool factory play in.. not too mention an expansion team will probably suck so NY fans won't settle for a club getting smacked.. if RB starts winning consistencly the crowds will come.. that is all it takes.. Henry has 15 goals or so by mid season.. fans will start to flock out.. but NY is a fickle sports market.. you win they love you.. you lose its kinda of like... awww.. lets go grab a bite... no one cares for losers...
In fairness, the other point is that there is an awful lot to do in New York. One can love soccer intensely and love other things intensely as well. If one loves soccer, theater, ballet, boxing, and horse racing, and, in terms of standard of quality, soccer is the lowest grade available, one might opt for one of the other choices and catch EPL or La Liga on the docking station for one's smart phone. So, is the Don correct in suggesting other towns need to attract 10k for minor league soccer to get an MLS franchise? There are numerous examples of where, when the other choices available are not up to New York standard, MLS is good enough, while minor league soccer isn't - Seattle, Toronto, and Philadelphia outnumber the Portland example 3-1. Southeast Florida is more comparable to Toronto or Philadelphia or Seattle than to Portland. It is a megalopolis stretching from the tip of the peninsula to north of West Palm Beach with some 6 million or so people.
I dont think the issue will be whether or not MLS will get money, but rather will people even come if they have tickets. By having a team in New York , you will have a lot of tickets sold/distributed just because it is in New York. Companies will probably pump money in as long as their is not a recession. The question is if people will actually come to the stadium to see the team play. Additionally, how will it affect NYRB. 1-2 supposed home sellouts for the NYRB would not be the most enticing reason to allow another team in that may be able to go after some of the same kids that they would get for their academy.
nyc has a team! its the red bulls! 15 MINUTES FROM MANHATTAN BY TRAIN. $2 TRIP! NEW yORKERS spend $25000 a year on rent, 15000 on prada, 15000 on restaurants, and complain about $2 for a slice of pizza! They dont deserve mls in the city! its a once a week event in jersey. takes as long to go to citi or yankee stadiums. whose gonna spend $500 million on a stadium to make, at best, 15 million a year!?! go watch the red bull; the stadium is nice!forget about the cosmos, fill rb arena, consistently, first!
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I was just reading all the articles for the MLS wanting to build a SSS at the Pier 40, in Manhattan, and it holding between 20-25K.
This is what I have against it, and a better plan-
The new franchise (NY Cosmos, or whomever) should be placed on the East side of the city. Why the heck would you put another team on the West side of the city too, and this team being close to its neighbor (Red Bulls)?
Doesn't this conflict with the Red Bull team radius/rights issue anyway?
I would construct the stadium in Flushing Meadows, (if near Citi Field) and see if Mets owner Fred Wilpon would be interested in collaborating on the project and have an interest in purchasing the team.
The stadium size is a Big issue- It should accommodate at least 30,000 people.Because of the Cosmos name, you are going to get alot of people in the beginning and maybe always depending on who is playing for this team. It would be nice to make it even larger, so that when and if the USA ever were to hold another World Cup, this stadium could be utilized for that event. Of course by FIFA standards a World Cup stadium must hold I believe a minimum of 40,000 people.
The main reason I would put the stadium in Flushing Meadows is to accommodate all the fans who are out on that side of the City(Queens,Brooklyn),Westchester and on Long Island.There alot of fans out there, and Queens has many different ethnic groups.
Also, the Mass Transit Infrastructure is already there in place: you got the Subway, and the L.I. Railroad which can move mass amounts of people.
This has been said before, but....
1) I wouldn't trust Fred Wilpon to buy a hot dog vending license with his cash flow issues
2) Why would anyone want to pay to build a 40,000 seat soccer stadium right next to a baseball stadium that has hosted soccer before and not too far from a brand new 70,000 seat football stadium?
3) If someone could build a large stadium within the city limits, the Jets would have done so before going in on the Meadowlands.
I want a team that is in New York and not in New Jersey, but Flushing isn't the place for it--if it can even be done inside the city.
Maybe a SSS along the lines of what MLS already has in Hempstead near the Coliseum if private money can be found and the Town of Hempstead can be bribed to allow the zoning changes. Maybe.
NYC should have two teams because of the massive number of soccer fans there, but not right now because ny soccer fans have a much higher level of expectation than most US soccer fans, live local games wont compete with watching European teams on tv for them until play is at a certain level. I dont know what the tipping point is in terms of level of play, but once its reached attendance numbers for ny soccer teams will be among the best in the league but before that point they will struggle, Garber needs to wait until a few years after the next major salary cap increase (2015 I think) at least, cause if you bring in the cosmos now and they play at the level mls is at, and draw the numbers the redbulls do then you pop the balloon on all the nostalgia and history of the cosmos being a great team with a high level of play, and huge crowds. They'll go from the continuation of a great team with a massive fan base to a struggling mls team that used the same name as the cosmos to get some interest, and once you pop that balloon you can never get back that perception of greatness. You want the cosmos to come out of the gate strong with huge crowds and great play. If you wait the Cosmos will be able use nostalgia and their history to great advantage in attracting great players, fans and media intrest
Should they go all out on a Mario Balotelli a la Giorgio Chinaglia for the Cosmos.
Yes, because that coupled with Pele and Eric Cantona did wonders.
Anyone who thinks that this new team isn't "a struggling team using the Cosmos name" is a fool. A damn fool. If you honestly believe that this is the same team I have but one request. Please, for me, for yourself, for the country and the world...Please....don't vote.
I think 5 or 6 years from now, which is when i think the cosmos should be added to mls, mls will be at a level and will have enough money to get a world class superstar at the age of 28 or 29 who has won everything in Europe he can and is looking to further his brand in america, I also think 5 or 6 years from now mls will be too good for teams to be willing to spend money of dps who are 33 years or older its gonna be a situation where superstars are either gonna have to join mls at 31 or younger and play out their remaining years in a respectable league (which mls will be in 5 or 6 years) or play a few more years in Europe and retire to Dubai playing in front of a few thousand fans and a billionaire owner
thanks but im talking about perception not reality, im a huge fan of mad men by the way which is probably why i think like this
Since they can't seem to find a location for a stadium of any size, I suppose that not building a 80,000 stadium would be more impressive than not building a 30,000 stadium.
I've never seen a single second of Mad Men, so I don't quite get this.
However, the Cosmos are finally going to field a team! In the USL-PDL. Clearly we should level the Manhattan Macy's to make way for The American Wembley
But new Wembley sucks
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