Should they stay or should they go (now)...

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by Soaker888, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. Soaker888

    Soaker888 Member

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    Looking towards the end of the season as the end of October for the Rapids this year (I see this as the most likely scenario...no play-off games), I am wondering what kind of post-season shifts the RFO and OP will be making regarding players to let go. Immediate possibilities for me are Edu, and possibly J. Smith (age and injury prone history). Given the Kimura "trade" I would say much is possible. Wondering about the future of T. Marshall, Palguta, Akpan, Nane (due to Hendry signing mostly) as well. Opinions? I assume continued aquisitions would follow.


  2. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

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    Release for Sure:
    J Smith
    T Marshall
    Palguta
    Edu (hope no contract gurantee for 2013)

    Trade:
    Omar
    JL
    Thompson

    Changing poistions:
    Mullan (RB or maybe D-mid)
    Castrillon (Forward)
  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

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    Wait, when did we move to San Jose? :D
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  4. Stuart95

    Stuart95 Member+

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    Retire: Pablo, Smith (I like him but don't see the return on investment)
    Release: Edu, Palguta
    Trade: Omar

    I'd keep Nane as an insurance policy and to see how he continues to develop


  5. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

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    Take a look at your salaries and evaluate if they can provide commensurate value in 2013. Based on that, I'm not sure any player is untouchable.

    Therefore, players who the team should look to move if a better player can be found - Everyone.

    Yeah, I know, that's a cop out and it's pretty much impossible to make happen. But it's also pretty much how I feel every year. The team should always try to improve. If you're coming off a very successful year you should try to improve but consider minimizing change as well. That's not the case this year.
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

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    Matt Pickens?
  7. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

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    Matt is the 6th highest paid player team. In my mind he clearly has been one of the better players this year. It comes down to "if a better player can be found".

    Having said that, there are limited resources to look for and sign new players so priorities need to be set. I might place him lower then the field players. Having said that ;) If a quality young keeper can be had for substantially less money, sorry Matt.
  8. commercecity

    commercecity Member

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    Our owner heard London calling.
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  9. Soaker888

    Soaker888 Member

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    I guess the new contract Omar signed this season don't mean much. With his performance, what is he worth in a trade? A replacement will probably be worth more than he is now. C. Casey can still make things happen for the Rapids, but he is overpaid right now given his injuries and performance. I guess I see the forward positions as a next place to do some overhaul.
  10. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

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    Cliche as it may be (and as much as a cop-out as it may be) I really think we need to wait till the season's over to make a call. Reason why is, there's going to be a day very soon that the Rapids get officially eliminated from playoff contention. With the pressure of making the playoffs off their backs, how do the individuals respond? Do the players who have been underwhelming so far start sulking and barely contributing, or do they play with a new carefree-ness that lets them be creative and show potential?

    Plus, what happens if the "system" we have in place right now continues to fail for the next 9 games? I've said it elsewhere, but I don't want us just gutting a roster of players, who worked rather well for us before, in favor of installing a new set of players to fit a system that so far shows very poor returns.

    For me, at this point the only holdover players from Gary Smith's regime I think should be let go are Pablo (for health and because he's gonna retire anyway) and Marshall (age+salary). Of the new crop, Zapata (age), Edu (useless) and Hill/Wahl (assuming Pareja is still coaching next year, we acquired them, but the coach won't use them, so why keep them around?) are players I'd consider for cutting. But if things play out as poorly over the next 9 games as I think they will, and if we're still keeping Pareja/"the system"...Mullan, Moor, Wynne, Larentowicz and Pickens are only players I'd consider safe.
    spot repped this.
  11. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

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    I feel like a broken record, but the system is failing because the many of players aren't suited for the system. That's like saying Bohemian Rhapsody is a bad song if you only heard it sung by William Shatner.
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  12. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

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    Of the 10 outfield players who have been starting the most for us this year, 5 are Pareja's pickups. Of the remaining 5, two are central defenders, about whom I'd love to see an argument for how they don't suit the system. That leaves Mullan, who doesn't fit the offensive system Pareja wants but has been our best outfield player this year (not coincidental, if you ask me), so Pareja gives him starts anyway; Larentowicz, who has been average this year, but better when he has a central midfielder next to him actually playing defense; and Omar/Conor, undeniably disappointing.

    Unless you feel a better forward is the silver bullet (which is certainly possible, given how poor our finishing has been)...I think blaming the players for the system failures is just about to be a no-longer-legit argument. Pareja's got half of "his guys" out there every week. He's got another 3 on the bench to choose from, every week (and in the case of Hill and Wahl, chooses not to), and soon has a 4th in Thomas. Seems to me the choir is just one tenor short of being fully organized.
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  13. DavidJames

    DavidJames Member+

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    RapidStorm - You think OP and the Rapids have had enough time and opportunity to implement a new system and make a judgement regarding it's viability. I don't. We can agree to disagree :)
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  14. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    I think we have to see how Hendry Thomas performs and fits into this before we can make any solid judgements other than Pablo is probably going to retire and Marshall is really old and therefore we need to add depth at CB whether we bring him back or not.
  15. Soaker888

    Soaker888 Member

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    Agree. Possession based 4-3-3 is not a "new" system, just new to these Rapids. If the players available can't click with it, then you need ones that can. But what seems to me to not be working isn't the possession and passing part, it's the finishing, as so many have stated. Hence, new forward blood.
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

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    5? Assuming our fairly recent 4-3-3:

    Castrillon - Casey/Cummings - Mullan
    Larentowicz - Rivero - Nane
    Zapata - Moor - Wynne - Freeman
    Pickens

    Castrillon, Rivero, Zapata are OP's choices. I guess you could say Cascio has gotten a number of minutes so you can add him. I'm not sure where you get the 5th though.
  17. RapidStorm

    RapidStorm Member+

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    I count Freeman. After all, we got rid of Kimura (Oscar's choice) in order to get him or Moor playing RB.

    And I went off this list for most starts, because our formation has changed too much this season to do a formation-based lineup. Still, you could easily get a 4-2-3-1 average of how we've played this year, with Larentowicz and Castrillon logging the most minutes for us at D-mid, Cascio, Mullan and Omar up front.
  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

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    I suppose if you count the Koz trade you can make a case for Freeman. Since he was signed the same day OP was signed I wasn't counting him as a Pareja pick.
  19. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

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    But drafted by Rapids way before OP was even in their sights.

    Also, at least for me, Rapids have made it clear they are moving to new style no matter what, so that kind of tosses what I feel is the "undercurrent" of several posts that we will change back to defensive soccer this offseason.
  20. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

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    They should just hit the reset button. Watch them fail with all of their guys and excuses can be damned.
  21. spot

    spot Member+

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    But wait, is anyone a Pareja pick? The picks are Bravo's aren't they? Pareja just needs to make them play pretty. Bravo gets to keep his teflon coating it seems.
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  22. spot

    spot Member+

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    I figure it's pointless to can Pareja at this point, and I'm not even convinced he's the problem. For all I know he's playing ball with Bravo, and these are the results. Sadly the only way to figure out if Bravo is the issue is for us to go through a series of coaches, there's a precedent for that in MLS mostly among the teams the Rapids are currently surrounded by on the table.

    I don't see how they can stay committed to their vision and past decisions without doing this.
  23. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

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    Fair point. Final roster control does land with Bravo, according to what they've said.
  24. 30Something

    30Something Member

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    I was expecting the Rapids to have more points than they do at this point in the season. I was expecting them to move more seamlessly into a 4-3-3 set up than they have. That said I have two observations:

    1) The fact that they're struggling to pick up the system shouldn't be a huge shock. We didn't have the right players for the system when OP was hired (I pointed this out multiple times right after he was hired). And the Rapids didn't have much time to get the right players after OP was hired, since the season was right around the corner. We've been through what, 1.5 transfer periods? Damn, give the guys some time to sort it out.

    2) Aside from some untimely defensive lapses (in damn-near every game), and some uncharacteristically shitty finishing, the team hasn't been playing terrible. We're not getting boat-raced in every game. We have good possession and are creating chances. Aside from 1-2 really bad games we've been in damn near every one of them.

    I think some people have short memories and unrealistic expectations for a new coach, a new system, with (mostly) players that aren't suited for the system.

    The talk about OP having 5 of his guys, and they still aren't winning is nonsense. Soccer is played with 11 guys on the pitch. If they have 5-6 guys on a different page, you end up with half the guys being exposed by the competition. You might as well be playing 2 men short.

    TL/DR: Settle the ******** down.
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  25. jayd8888

    jayd8888 Member+

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    How about win some ********ing games! You know, the thing they are "going for."

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