So after six games what have we learned about Klinsmann?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by BennyScrap, Nov 11, 2011.

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  1. SPA2TACU5

    SPA2TACU5 Member+

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    Their career choices have lead them into situations where the circumstances form a big obstacle for a possible move to a bigger team.
    For instance extending a contract with no limited transfer fee, but in return more job security and a better salary, but also a contract of which the last year of contract will start running at say when the player in question has already turned 29.

    Most of them were related to career choices; that's why we call choices that influence one's career a career choice. It's about club (which on itself contains many factors to consider, like whonthenmanager is, and whatbtheir transfer policy is, etc), age, value, contract length, salary, country, citizenship, league rules, limited transfer fees, bonusses, contract extension clauses, other clauses, et cetera.

    I would at least think a player and/or his agent is aware of what extending a contract at Fulham means for a player's career.

    Self reflection, bravo.


  2. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    Bingo.

    Good find.
  3. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

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    Interesting article from back in June on summary of USA goals under Bradley. Plenty of goals from crosses by FB's and Donovan although noted a lack of true wingers providing crosses. Shea is a nice addition to wing play.

    Not surprisingly, USA scored significantly more goals in second half than first half.

    Also noted was the rather youthful CM's during last cycle - a big change from Reyna era. These CM's are all getting great experience and maturing so will provide a different look than last 4 years.

    Greatest positive goal differential came during first 2 years of last cycle, again, unsurprisingly. I suspect we will see something similar this cycle. I also suspect we will see possession play against bunkering opponents, defensive and counter play against very strong opponents and a varied attack against similarly strength opponents - all depending on match circumstances, of course. In other words, much like last cycle.

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/goldcup/news/article/2011/06/23/usmnt-goal-goal-breakdown-brings-end-donovan-debate
  4. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Exactly. Develop these kids with that style, then once they're good enough for the senior team, bring them in and slowly change the style.

    This whole thing is completely wrong, and YES, that is my opinion. We all know that - get the f*** over it.

    First off, the difference between possession to hold a lead and possession to score is RIGHT THERE - one is clearly looking to exploit/create gaps in the opponent, the other is looking to waste time. The problem is that we don't have the players to use slower, more patient, deliberate possession to break down defenses, whereas it's not nearly as hard to simply be less ambitious with the ball. Yes, aimless passing and holding on to the ball. That's generally how you kill games off.

    It's not that we COULDN'T possess the ball to manage the game. We simply chose not to. That was a problem because our backline, particularly after injuries suffered back there, couldn't deal with the pressure from our opponents driving right back up the field when we fruitlessly booted it forward, and losing Charlie Davies to chase down a few of those balls didn't help.

    My biggest problem with trying to implement this style is that there simply isn't enough time before World Cup Qualifying. Yes, it's going to take time, I get that. Could we convert the team to that style? I'm not completely sure, but why bother with that when we could just use that style at the youth level and then reap the benefits in a few generations? That way, we can use the time right now to make tactical tweaks at the senior level and test players' mettle.


  5. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    Pure Class! Crystal clear. Must be proud of your vocabulary. The thing is that I feel that it is NOT completely wrong. We also know all that? DOES VULGARITY PROVE YOUR POINT??
  6. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

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    Wow. How is that for a "Merry Christmas."

    What a mess.
  7. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    But didnt you and Hoyos make a case several pages ago that our top players are playing said style with their club. One would imagine it would be an easy transition if said argument were true

    No other club has been able to duplicate what Barcelona is, let alone country. It's great to say, "Let's play like Barca" but the fact is our youth system isnt set up to play like Barca in the next 10 years, how is it that we should expect our current senior crop to do so?

    And here is the point that MANY of us are making. We do not need to completely alter our game immediately in order to see the final product completed in time. Hopefully we see the Slovenia formation (and player selection to some extent) going forward

    I believe you glossed over the last cycle. There was more possession under the bradley era then he's given credit for. Yes, we played the long ball more often then we should, but we also maintained possession. I think people were so irritated with the long ball that they missed the actual possession that occurred

    DOES CAPITALIZING MAKE YOURS?? Perhaps i should try it when i make my next point.
  8. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    What point was I trying to make? Have I capitalized at any of your posts?? It must have tickled you the wrong way so I suppose it did make a point.
    My feeling is that you do not have to curse to make your side more valid than anyone else's. You don't seem to require it.
  9. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    there is your point ;)

    I'll curse in real life, but the interweb, it is easy enough to get under people's skin. Plus I'm never wrong, so i have that going for me.

    As for the all caps: i dont understand the point of using all caps. Typically it means the poster is yelling, but in some cases IT SEEMS THAT THEY ARE STRESSING A POINT.

    I find that we all have to repeat our points quite a bit on these boards. Perhaps if we all typed in Caps it would sink in? :D
  10. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    That is what Barcelona does. I am not saying we are going to play like Barcelona but one should aspire to get better not say lets go back to what we do best.....I remember very few blowouts.
    Otergod Quote<<<<No other club has been able to duplicate what Barcelona is, let alone country. It's great to say, "Let's play like Barca" but the fact is our youth system isnt set up to play like Barca in the next 10 years, how is it that we should expect our current senior crop to do so?>>>
    I thought I made it clear that I did NOT (caps) expect us to play like Barcelona but to try and get better. Not to go back to what was before? That point was what I was trying to say...
  11. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    I certainly was not yelling but was trying to stress something. As far as repeating a point over and over? Seems to me we have been doing that for many many pages now and we still repeat ourselves. S OK.-- rats, caps again?!
  12. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    Using Barca as an example and then saying that you are not saying we should play like them seems to counter each other out.

    Anyhow, does mean playing like Barca the only route for improvement? Italy and Germany do not play Spanish soccer and have found great success internationally. Perhaps if we should strive to replicate anyone it would be those who have found success internationally. We may very well be moving to a more German game, but there is nothing wrong with taking our old game and improving upon it (which closely resembled Italy's game IMO).

    We may very well find that JK simply improves the old system with the actions he's performing. There was nothing wrong with the old system, only that there was room for improvement
  13. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    I never meant to indicate that playing like Barcelona is the only way. Nor do I recollect saying so. As far as possession soccer goes I would hold them up as an ideal team playing an intuitive brand of possession soccer. That is all and aspiring to play like that is not, in my opinion a negative. That said I have no problem how we use possession. I simply believe that resorting to possession to hold a lead is just as bad as prevent defense in American Football. It never works in football and will not in soccer either. The idea should be to balance possession with pressure throughout the game. Possession is not intended for defense other than keeping the ball from an opponent but is designed to exploit their defensive weaknesses as fleeting as they may be. Pressure up high beginning with our forwards is a defense that will hold a lead not falling back and playing defensive footsie. That is how I see it. If there was nothing wrong with the old system then why change it?? What is the room for improvement, I keep reading that but no one ever gives that imagined room for improvement nor what it should be??
  14. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    What are you talking about it never works in soccer? That's what teams like Barcelona do should they wish to kill off games. How is it bad? It's not bad - it's smart. Plenty of teams do it.

    But possession can also be used to kill off games. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about that. Keep your opponent off the ball for extended periods of time. You can still press as well, something I've also been advocating. Barcelona both press and possess the ball, and they're probably the best team in the world at both. This gives the more of the ball and the opponent less. The fact that they possess the ball so well helps them with a backline that has suffered some injuries(and has shown weakness even when healthy), because it gives the opponent less of a chance to expose that backline. That's why guys like Busquets and Mascherano are used back there when they're typically midfielders.

    I've been telling you the room for improvement. We were offensively pretty good last cycle. The problem was that our manner of managing the game was very poor. Once we had the lead, or were satisfied with whatever we had, we simply booted the ball back up the field, reorganized our lines, and waited for the next assault. This was great when we had guys like Jay DeMerit and Oguchi Onyewu healthy and in-form, but once we suffered injuries to these guys, and Charlie Davies, our backline was less able to handle the onslaught of attacks, especially with Jonathan Bornstein involved.

    That's why I'm saying that we should keep possession simply to keep our opponent from having the ball, giving them less chance to exploit our backline, but not as a way to attack. Pressing high up the field has worked pretty well for us too, and I'm glad Juergen is making use of that tactic.
  15. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Are you saying we don't have players that can do this:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSGIUj2SDHg"]USMNT passing move vs. Slovenia (all field players get a touch) - YouTube[/ame]

    Or 46 secs, 1:29 here?

    http://www.ussoccer.com/media-library/Videos/US-Men/2011/09/110902-MNT-vs-CRC-HLs.aspx

    The sequence at 46 secs started with Boca->Torres->Shea. In the old style boca would have booted a long hopefull ball in the direction of Altidore, praying he would come down with it.
  16. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    Not quite.


    I have emphasized in this thread how important 'chemistry' is when playing in this style. Look at Argentina of 2006 to what they are now. Best players in the world, difference is, bad chemistry (I would argue, and the lack of Roman).


    Our guys, all can play this style. It takes more than 6-7 games though to really get teh hang of it. We're seeing little peaks of hope though. I think once the real pressure gets on our guys, they'll learn under fire.

    Doesn't help though with the injury to Torres. He is the guy that is running the short passes in our midfield and creative sparks to the wings/ along with Donovan also. After his injury there has been a hole there.


    We'll see how things play out, but I agree, the odds have been against Klinsi' from the beginning.


    I still believe our NT can play a more possession oriented game than under the BB era.

    Yes, we did play some possession, like that game in Dallas or Houston was it vs. Mexico? We were out 'mexico'ing mexico, It was nice to see.

    That game proved to me we had it 'in our guys' to play this style.

    It just takes practice.

    I disagree, I think our guys will learn faster, and we'll see more results in the direction of a more 'posssesion' oriented game if we throw them head first into it.

    Many are scared this will hurt us overall, and don't believe we have the right talent right now to play tihs style. I disagree.
  17. I<3F50

    I<3F50 Member

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    Didn't really know where to put this but I had the urge to tell someone. I live in SoCal and yesterday my cousin got to meet Jurgen Klinsmann. His JV team played Mater Dei and won 1-0. Klinsmann's son plays goalie for Mater Dei and was at the game. Real shame considering I went to his game the day before. He showed me a picture and it's really weird seeing a bunch of young kids around him while he's wearing a t-shirt and sweatshirt.
  18. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

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    Great find. ONE sequence out of SEVEN GAMES that we've been supposedly using this system. Against the mighty Slovenians to boot.

    By the way, if you're interested in having your whole theory blown to smithereens, check your DVR of the France game and count the number of times Bocanegra (and Cherundolo and Goodson and Williams) boots up a long ball. I saw more aimless long balls in that game than I ever saw from any Bob Bradley team.
    SPA2TACU5 repped this.
  19. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator Staff Member

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