Tampa a Contender for MLS?

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by MadRHatter, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. MadRHatter

    MadRHatter Member

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  2. FC Zanarkand Abes!

    FC Zanarkand Abes! Member

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    I wonder how the stadium backlash in Miami would affect funding for this. I'd be all for a regional rivalry between Tampa, Orlando, and Atlanta (and hopefully Charlotte someday) in the Southeast.
  3. Kayak

    Kayak Member+

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    Big if but if this is true I hope they get the Rowdies brand; so much better than Flames.
  4. tampasteve1

    tampasteve1 Member

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    At this time they are supposedly privately financing this.


  5. BYLRPhil

    BYLRPhil Member

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    The NASL Rowdies have been successful and as well supported as a soccer team in a small baseball stadium can be. Well done Tampa, doing it yourself and not having the league do it for you. *ahem*NYC2*ahem*
  6. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    This is completely bizarre.

    If true, it's amazing. But it makes my head assplode to think that someone feels they actually could create a 28,888-seat soccer stadium (larger than every other SSS in the country) in downtown Tampa, as if all you have to do is say it and do it.

    If they do it, uh-mazing.
  7. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

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    Saying and getting done are two different things.

    Quite literally hundreds of folks who have said what they are gonna do, and have done jack squat since MLS began.

    Of course I hope it happens but I ain't holdin my breathe.

    Way to much experience.
  8. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    I don't know if it's hundreds, much less "quite literally hundreds," but it's several.
  9. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

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    I'm going for effect....I'd say dozens if u start from 94.
  10. speedcake

    speedcake Member

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    Well we are all waiting for more information and of course very anxiously awaiting the press conference on December 11th. They ARE announcing something and it appears that this stuff has not just been made up.

    The $400 million figure (seems to be some uncertainty over where that number actually came from) would be for the entire project from the stadium downtown to the 20 field youth soccer complex with mini stadium to the medical facility etc

    http://www.vsi-stadium.com/
  11. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

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    tampa is an utterly shite market for MLS. they are one of the worst cities when it comes to supporting their professional sports teams and they have terrible demographics for mls. the city's population is older, poorer and less well educated than what is desirable for MLS demographics. not to mention that MLS does not need to be in markets that already have that many other pro sports teams (NFL, NHL, MLB) that are also not that big ... the pro sports landscape is already over packed. ATL or MIA at 5.5M having all the other sports is one thing, but 4 pro teams in 2.8M Tampa is another story. it would be much better to be one of two teams (on opposite seasons) in 2.1M Orlando (which is also a younger, more affluent, more educated demographic that matches MLS fan's demographic).

    miami is also terrible but i can understand MLS wanting to capture such a large MSA and TV market (not to mention glamourous market) .. but Tampa? Tampa is a terrible decrepit city and has about zero cache whatsoever.

    this is a pipedream. i give this about a 3% chance of actually happening but it makes for interesting talk among those desperate "but we deserve MLS in Topeka" fans that every city has.
  12. speedcake

    speedcake Member

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    Why do you bother posting at all? I mean, unless you want us all thinking of you as a babbling idiot.

    Because that post is trash and I feel sorry for you for thinking that sharing your opinion with us was a good idea.
    aetraxx7 and Bluesfan repped this.
  13. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

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    well since i have crunched both the demographic and the professional sports attendance numbers and those number clearly back up exactly what i've said about tampa, that they are one of the worst pro sports attendance cities and that their demographics do not compare favourably to other MLS cities in terms of youth, education or affluence i'd say that it is you who are the babbling idiot spouting off without knowing the data.

    feel free to do some research and collect some data before you just assume that others have not done so themselves.
  14. speedcake

    speedcake Member

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    The expert has crunched the numbers, everyone! Look out!

    I am familiar with your work. Bigsoccer professionals deserve all the respect in the world.
  15. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

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    If this group in Tampa has the following:

    Financially Stable investors/operators that MLS and its' BOG approve of and covet

    A SSS stadium plan that makes sense for a possible MLS team, and is realistically possible for it to be approved, financed, and built

    Real, viable local support from potential fan base and Municipality/Government

    If this group has all of the above, they will at the very least be in the conversation for a possible future expansion team. If they don't have ALL three they will be just another St Louis, Detroit, Sacramento, Las Vegas, etc.. Usually the third is the easiest part..........it's the first two that derails MLS' interest in a market or groups' bid to be invited/granted entrance into the MLS owners group.
  16. speedcake

    speedcake Member

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    Ya they've got alot of convincing left to do. I'm skeptical. Excited about MLS possibly returning, but until something concrete happens or someone other than VSI says this is happening there isn't any reason to go over board. We are having fun discussing it, but no one is overly concerned about the Rowdies or what will happen in the next couple of seasons.

    That might all change on the 11th or shortly after, depending on what is said and who if anyone comes out to support/validate what is said on the 11th.
  17. Orlando Rays

    Orlando Rays This is your world.

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    I would go so far as to say VSI needs to prove they can attract fans. They didn't do very well in the PDL Southeast this past year; second-to-last, which considering the PDL SE is terrible at attendance anyway, isn't something to hang their hat on.

    If they build the modular stadium, and only 1,000 or so come to see VSI in USL Pro, it probably will quiet the rush for a retractable-roof SSS. Either that, or they'll try to buy the Rowdies.

    The owner of the Lightning is one of the them (allegedly). Not surprising, since the NHL is about to die...
  18. FC Zanarkand Abes!

    FC Zanarkand Abes! Member

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    In that case they should be all set. The biggest criticism I'm hearing about Tampa is the age of the population vis-a-vis sports attendance. I know low attendance gets blown out of proportion sometimes: people are still reminding us Atlantans about not selling out Braves playoff games in 2005. Here's a Thrashers game we sold out in 2007, before the damn team got sold to the Great White North:

    [​IMG]

    Gotta love it!
  19. Orlando Rays

    Orlando Rays This is your world.

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    Atlanta was 21st in attendance in 2006-07 and 22nd in 2007-08. They plummeted to second-to-last in 2008-09, and their attendance fell from there. They averaged only 13,469 per game in 2010-11.

    For the record: Tampa Bay outperformed Atlanta the entire time, and has generally been around 16,500 per game the past several years, and saw a good bump to 18,400 per game last season.\

    Not that it'll matter after the NHL suffers their second canceled season in 8 years.
  20. speedcake

    speedcake Member

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    Tampa Bay Lightning were 13th in the league in attendance last year (maybe 14th?) but only 100 or so fans per game from cracking the top 10 in attendance.

    I guess Ole Gunnar NotSoSharp didn't crunch his numbers very well.
  21. Orlando Rays

    Orlando Rays This is your world.

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    According to ESPN, they were 13th, on a 7% bump in attendance over the previous year. Exactly 1,200 more per game, to be exact.

    I'll end this segue with a thought: This makes the NHL lockout look all the more stupid. They are about to blam another season, after their best season in a while attendance-wise. I don't see how they recover from this.

    I might add I feel sorry for Lightning fans, and they are welcome to come patronize the Solar Bears or Everblades if they feel like it. The average NHL ticket price would cover ticket, parking and gas to either, anyway.
  22. speedcake

    speedcake Member

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    Plus, even though comparing Bucs and Rays attendance to what MLS would require on a game by game basis is folly, the Bucs drew just fine until the 2010 season. That was Morris' second year and the year after we went 3 and 13.

    Up until that point, they drew above 60k. In a 65k capacity stadium.

    oh Ole Gunnar, where has your number crunching gone?!
  23. Bluesfan

    Bluesfan Member

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    So MLS has an educational requirement for its fans now? Sorry, I missed the folks studying for the LSAT at halftime during the MLS playoffs.
  24. OleGunnar20

    OleGunnar20 Member+

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    no but according to demographics of MLS cities with excellent attendance and a study of MLS fan demographics the league did a while back it has been shown that MLS fans tend towards having a higher education level than the nation in general and other sports fans. those are just the facts.

    it is also a fact that compared to most MLS cities and compared to Orlando (visit the us census website) Tampa has a "less educated" overall population (measured as a ratio of college graduates+post college graduates/high school diploma or less).

    now it is only one factor of many that influence the potential of any particular city for an MLS team. other factors are youthfulness of population (19-40), overall population, population vs # of pro-teams, more households with income over 50K, fewer households with income under 25K.

    and those are just the demographic factors ... add to that both historic and current level of soccer support in market, historic level of pro sports support in market, quality and competence and dedicated focus on soccer of potential ownership, quality and location of stadium situation.

    there are any number of factors that influence the upper potential for an MLS market. no one is a magic predictive bullet but when you look at any potential market (or current market) you can get a sense of what factors a market is good at or poor at and make some kind of assumption about the market as a whole.

    and on most of the factors that can be measured or known Tampa does poorly compared to current MLS markets or other potential MLS markets. it might be hard to hear if you live in Tampa but unfortunately it is still true.

    could an MLS team in Tampa manage to be about as good as current teams like Chivas or Colorado and average 14-16K a game? maybe. are they likely, given all of the multiple factors, to be an excellent expansion market like Portland or Montreal or Kansas City etc? there isn't a single bit of evidence to support that they would and many to suggest they wouldn't. now given that MLS has a very few expansion slots left why would they want to expand to a market who's high end potential is likely to be mediocre?
    QuietType repped this.
  25. Orlando Rays

    Orlando Rays This is your world.

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    Except that, for most of their existence, the Tampa Bay Rowdies were among the five highest-attended teams in the original NASL, and at their peak were pushing an average attendance of 30,000 per game.

    The current Rowdies do well in relation to the current NASL. USF is consistently in the top 25 of NCAA soccer attendance (they were 15th in 2011 with an average of 1,518, and improved on that number this year with an average of 1,556). That's a helluva bit of evidence that soccer can work in Tampa Bay.

    Most of the rest of your reasoning acted as a veiled insult, which (with the sole exception of WSW) they don't deserve.
    QuietType repped this.

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