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The best players of the 1982 World Cup

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

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    As always some suggestions for the players of the 82 World Cup

    Peter Shilton

    Dino Zoff

    Rinat Dasaev

    Leandro

    Junior

    Gaetano Scirea

    Fulvio Collovati

    Claudio Gentile

    Marius Tresor

    Antonio Cabrini

    Socrates

    Marco Tardelli

    Alain Giresse

    Falcao

    Michel Platini

    Bruno Conti

    Eder

    Pierre Littbarski

    Zico

    Zbigniew Boniek

    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge

    Paolo Rossi

    Gerry Armstrong
     


  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    rsssf doesn't mention it but this were the points for the Golden Ball vote among journalists.

    Rossi - 437 points
    Falcao - 252 points
    Rummenigge - 207 points
    Boniek - 179 points
    Zico - 170 points
    Socrates 156 points
    Giresse - 140 points
    Dasaev - 67 points
    Maradona - 67 points [both ended on same place]
    Platini - 61 points

    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/fifa-gb82.html
     
    msioux75 repped this.
  3. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    Well the WC goldenball is different from Ballon D;or (goldenball) no?
    It's just that Brazil exit early so it hurt Zico and Falcao in the WC rating
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    The press here wasn't happy with the expansion of the World Cup. They also noticed that although many players played good, no one stood out like Eusebio did in 1966 or Cruijff in 1974. According to the sports editor of the largest newspaper the result of the vote reflected this, "no one claimed this World Cup personally so the award went to the topscorer, with some other players included in the list for their names only", he said.

    Cruijff had a series of columns during the World Cup and also commentated on television. Funny is a column written on 05-07-1982. He started it with: "First things first: Brazil will qualify instead of Italy for the semi-finals of the tournament" and continued with the observation that the tournament was dominated by European teams.
    I mention this column because he was very positive about where the game was heading to. He was in particular impressed with France who "played modern". According to him, Giresse was the player of the tournament.
    Apart from France he was also happy with the talent that Czech Republic, Poland, USSR and the Belgians had. He was also positive about the Netherlands (who was absent of course), "within the next four years we will get the job done and finally win something" he said.
    In a later column he expressed his disbelief about how Italy and Germany made the final "the two opponents with the most fouls and the least amount of football".
    He also briefly mentioned how the tournament was framed as Zico vs Maradona in some circles. Cruijff said before the tournament took place: "Maradona his time will eventually come but for Zico it is arguably now or never."
    He agreed that the expansion of the World Cup wasn't an improvement and also noticed organizational issues. He also remarked in a slightly bitter style "the groups are still as imbalanced as they have always been."
    In his last column he said that the tournament had many good players but few outstanding ones, the ones who were expected to shine disappointed a bit but "often for reasons outside of their control, be a bit kind to them please."
    "In 20 years time we will not remember the ones who made it but the teams who did not make it."

    Will also post some teams of the tournaments I had collected over the years.
     
    Once repped this.


  5. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    He failed in his first claim, but the latter words had come true ... Brazil82 would last forerver in football history despite of exit early

    Falcao and Giresse should be the best 2 MF in WC82
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Ideal team of Associated Press:

    Zoff, Gentile, Luisinho, Collovati, Junior, Boniek, Platini, Tigana, Zico, Rossi, Rummenigge


    Ideal team of four major Italian sports publications together:

    Dasaev, Gerets, Briegel, Giresse, Collovati, Scirea, Platini, Boniek, Rossi, Graziani, Zico,

    Subs: Zoff, Tardelli, Antognoni, Ardiles, Eder, Tigana, Genghini


    Best players according to Dutch socialist newspaper (resistance paper during World War II - this as disclaimer for the choices):

    Dasaev, Scirea, Amoros, Collovati, Gerets, Tigana, Gilberto (Honduras), Falcao, Tardelli, Zico, Rossi

    Subs: N'Kono, Leandro, Socrates, Lato, Assad (Algeria)
     
    comme repped this.
  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    I'm sure at one time Planet World Cup had a team of the tournament selection for the '82 World Cup (and I assume a few others) - all I recall was that Littbarski was in it. It would have been just a retrospective opinion of one or some of their authors I think, but it's not there now as far as I can see.
    Just in case you weren't aware of what is there comme (though you might know these stats from elsewhere even if so) these are the stats:
    TOPSCORERS

    Paolo Rossi (ITA) 6 goals
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (GER) 5 goals
    Zbigniew Boniek (POL) 4 goals
    Zico (BRA) 4 goals
    Laszlo Kiss (HUN) 3 goals
    Alain Giresse (FRA) 3 goals
    Falcao (BRA) 3 goals
    Gerry Armstrong (NIR) 3 goals




    GOALS & ASSISTS

    * (Goal 2 pts, assist 1 pt)

    Gls Ast Pts
    Paolo Rossi (ITA) 6 1 13
    Zico (BRA) 4 4 12
    Zbigniew Boniek (POL) 4 3 11
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (GER) 5 0 10
    Alain Giresse (FRA) 3 3 9
    Pierre Littbarski (GER) 2 5 9
    Gerry Armstrong (NIR) 3 1 7
    Falcao (BRA) 3 1 7
    Laszlo Kiss (HUN) 3 0 6
    Michel Platini (FRA) 2 2 6
    Didier Six (FRA) 2 2 6
    Trevor Francis (ENG) 2 2 6
    Laszlo Fazekas (HUN) 2 2 6
    Gabor Pölöskei (HUN) 2 2 6
    Socrates (BRA) 2 1 5
    Serginho (BRA) 2 1 5
    Salah Assad (ALG) 2 1 5
    Eder (BRA) 2 1 5
    Daniel Passarella (ARG) 2 1 5
    Marco Tardelli (ITA) 2 1 5
    Tibor Nyilasi (HUN) 2 1 5
    John Wark (SCO) 2 1 5
    Bruno Conti (ITA) 1 3 5
    Grzegorz Lato (POL) 1 3 5
    Jozsef Toth (HUN) 1 3 5




    MOST ASSISTS

    Pierre Littbarski (GER) 5
    Zico (BRA) 4
    Zbigniew Boniek (POL) 3
    Giancarlo Antognoni (ITA) 3
    Bruno Conti (ITA) 3
    Alain Giresse (FRA) 3
    Jean Tigana (FRA) 3
    Grzegorz Lato (POL) 3
    Gordon Strachan (SCO) 3
    Jozsef Toth (HUN) 3
    Andrzej Buncol (POL) 2
    Janusz Kupcewicz (POL) 2
    Didier Six (FRA) 2
    Leandro (BRA) 2
    Junior (BRA) 2
    Wolfgang-Felix Magath (GER) 2
    Horst Hrubesch (GER) 2
    Michel Platini (FRA) 2
    Yuri Gavrilov (SOV) 2
    Laszlo Fazekas (HUN) 2
    Gabor Pölöskei (HUN) 2



    I thought Tigana was worth a place before Puck's post but since he's in those teams then I'd be more convinced now even. Littbarski wasn't in them I notice but I'd still have him down as one of the top few players personally I think (maybe even ahead of Rummenigge for that tournament despite the Bronze Ball for Rummeingge).
     
    comme repped this.
  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    Here's the link btw:
    http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1982/wc82statistics.html
    (Similar should be avaialble for all World Cup's after 1982, if not some of the prior ones - all tournaments are featured though from the drop down box near the top of the page and the menu is on the left hand side of the page - like I say comme you may have already viewed the site plenty but I couldn't recall you mentioning it - thanks for the rep anyway).
     
  9. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    I don't really favour going solely with statistical ratings, but the Castrol Index results are interesting anyway (I seem to recall seeing they had Ronaldinho higher rated for 2006 than 2002 which wasn't my impression - a few things like that anyway but it doesn't mean they calculated it wrong or anything).
    For 1982 Rossi does end up with their top rating, but Littbarski and Giresse as well as Zico (he was great at key moments) and Boniek being near the top does tally with my impressions too. Also Scirea at number 7 is interesting and backs up a suggestion he could have made the Fifa XI I think:
    http://www.castrolfootball.com/legends/tournament/index.php?year=1982
    I'm not sure how their methods are viewed compared to Opta, Who Scored of nowadays for example but they do provide good info.

    I remember a few Brazilian posters saying that generally speaking Falcao had been more consistently good than Zico, but that Zico came to life with sudden moments of inspiration and also had a great 90 minutes vs New Zealand. Socrates being in the frame is surely correct too IMO. If I find a post or two about Falcao/Zico I'll quote it in this thread. I'm not sure how many more players you might be looking to include comme, but perhaps in addition to Platini, Giresse, Tigana and Tresor, Bossis & Rocheteau might be considered. Trevor Francis played very well for England against France, but I don't know too much about the 2nd phase games against Germany and Spain.
     
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    There is btw a funny fact: Beckenbauer called Giresse "the only player who really struck my eye during the tournament" and Cruijff saw him as the best too.
    In an interview Giresse didn't know about Cruijff his view but he had heard the Beckenbauer comment and he was quite flattered.
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Best player according to spanish newspaper ABC:

    Dasaev, Nkono; Leandro, Gerets, Tresor, Passarella, Scirea, Junior, Falcao, Giresse, Ardiles, Antognoni, Rummenigge, Boniek, Rossi.
    [not exactly a best team but the ones who struck their eyes]

    Ideal team of Eusebio:
    Dasaev, Junior, Chivadze, Passarella, Gordillo, Giresse, Socrates, Falcao, Boniek, Rummenigge, Zico

    Ideal team of Trapattoni:
    Dasaev, Gerets, Junior, Falcao, Forster, Passarella, Littbarski, Boniek, Socrates, Platini, Rummenigge
    [rank-ordered on shirt numbering, not position]

    Ideal team of Bettega:
    Dasaev, Gerets, Junior, Forster, Passarella, Falcao, Coppel, Ardiles, Zico, Platini, Boniek

    Ideal team L'Equipe:
    Zoff, Gentile, Forster, Tresor, Cabrini, Cerezo, Tardelli, Falcao, Giresse, Zico, Rossi
    [based on point-based rating system]

    Ideal team Mundo Deportivo:
    Dasaev, Gentile, Collovati, Stielike, Junior, Falcao, Socrates, Boniek, Antognoni, Conti, Rossi


    In Spain the newspapers had also a sponsored prize which they organized together. Giresse won this 'prize'. Lato (second), Stielike (third), Rossi (fourth).
    Others who did very well in the award were: Platini, Antognoni, Rossi, Tigana, Graziani, Smolarek, Boniek, Briegel, Gordillo, Bossis, Strachan, Gerets, Chivadze, Merzekane, Samson, Tardelli and Ardiles.
     
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  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Littbarski was rarely mentioned among the best performers but indeed his assists and also the OPTA rating (which is heavily influenced by things as goals and assists but remarkably Rummenigge isn't in their top 40 despite his goals) tell a lot.

    He also had heavy competition of Boniek of course for his left midfield/left wing position who was more of a world star (despite being Polish) and very much the tangible face of the good performing Poland team. With also a nice hat-trick.
     
  14. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    IIRC I've given you a few rep's recently Puck but I felt that post definately deserved another one anyway:thumbsup:. Great research.
    Maybe the most interesting inclusion there is Coppell in Bettega's team. The most interesting exclusion probably Rossi from Bettega's team :eek:!
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Yeah, I took it from the La Stampa archive two years ago or so (if I recall correctly). I made as note that Bettega did not want to include Italians because they did not deserve it in his eyes. Also notice that he includes only one German (Forster), for the same reason.
    Anyhow, Bettega excluded Italians on purpose.
     
  16. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    I suppose he could also have been seen as either a forward or winger and votes being cast may have favoured a diamond looking midfield. As we know though, these teams don't have to be symmetrical/functional so for at least the team's mentioned (there'll be others from other sources but I don't expect you to find all of them!) he has been legitimately left out. Boniek would fit better as an AM or support forward perhaps in people's minds but that hat-trick vs Belgium would also be a stand-out performance. I thought Littbarski had a particularly good performance vs France but was very good from what I've seen throughout (not brilliant in the Final overall, but he had the attentions of Gentile!).
     
  17. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

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    No worries, yes it is a good site. It is/was run by a member here called Bauser but he hasn't posted for a few years.
     
  18. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

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    Great info all round.

    Something I find notable is the absence of English defenders from the selections. They only conceded one goal in the tournament, but are hardly picked.

    They also played some pretty handy opposition in the form of West Germany, France, hosts Spain, and Czechoslovakia.
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    Interesting I didn't know that (although I did spot a user here I think, had done a quiz online where you have 20 mins to name the players in all the all-star teams - I tried it yesterday and got about 167 with approx 100 to go - I wouldn't have got them all even with the countries listed even if I had an hour!).
    There is a Dutch contributor called Ruud, who put together the All-Time World Cup feature on there and wrote a few articles etc. The most recent new feature was I think their greatest World Cup games vote (which I voted on myself) and before that the greatest World Cup players vote (which I didn't spot in time to vote).
     
  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    I noticed Phil Thompson had the 10th highest rating on the Castrol Index, but probably it was a team effort. France didn't really seem to be in 'gear' when they played England and were playing 3 rather than 4 in midfield still IIRC (Tigana came on as sub anyway and Genghini didn't play). Excellent assist from Giresse though in the game, and still a very good performance/achievment by England to win 3-1. I suppose Spain were already out and weren't playing particularly well.
     
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    The midfield winger Conti perhaps doesn't appear in as many of the selections as I might have imagined, but probably if a bigger squad was chosen rather than just 11 players he'd have featured more.
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    It usually happens that teams are dominated by the ones who advance far in the tournament and/or play attractive football. It seems to be a requisite for being picked in the tournament teams. Especially if you are from a smaller country.

    Without provoking another debate about statistics but among the defenders of 1982 OPTA (English company ;) ) has two English among the top 10:

    1. Scirea
    2. Breitner [categorized as defender???]
    3. Thompson
    4. Mills
    5. Cabrini
    6. Collovati
    7. Passarella
    8. Kaltz
    9. Luizinho
    10. Forster

    I also think often the defenders are picked who are either totally clean and calm (Scirea) or the ones with a 'do or die' and 'never lose concentration' attitude (Forster for example).

    I think as well that Italians and Spanish have a certain bias just as the English and Germans have a bias (but don't want to provoke something here).

    Anyhow, I'm also interested in tournament teams after the group stage for the reason mentioned above but I can't find it for this tournament. I did find it though for euro84 (as posted before) and the european journalists also did a vote for player of the tournament after the group stage: Rummenigge ranked slightly ahead of Zico - after the first group stage in the Golden Ball poll.
    Best goalkeepers were Dasaev and N'Kono on second place - after first group stage.
    It was decided by the same group of journalists who eventually elected Rossi as player of the tournament.
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    That is correct. France was in disarray and the solution was a few tactical changes and the sending home of Larios, who spoiled the chemistry in the team.
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    La Stampa also asked other Serie A trainers than Trappatoni but they were heavily dominated by Italians, which they themselves also recognize. But now you ask about Conti it is maybe good to mention them (but again: they have a heavy Italian bias)

    Bersellini:
    Dasaev, Gentile, Junior, Falcao, Tendillo, Scirea, Littbarski, Zico, Rossi, Maradona, Eder
    [three Italians]

    Giacomini:
    Zoff, Gentile, Cabrini, Falcao, Collovati, Scirea, Conti, Tardelli, Rossi, Platini, Boniek
    [eight Italians]

    Mazzola:
    Zoff, Gentile, Junior, Oriali, Collovati, Scirea, Conti, Platini, Rossi, Boniek, Littbarski
    [seven Italians]

    Carosi:
    Zoff, Gentile, Cabrini, Falcao, Forster, Scirea, Conti, Giresse, Rossi, Boniek, Blokhin
    [six Italians]

    If you are interested I can also post/summarize the specific match comments of Cruijff in spoiler tags in the evening or tomorrow. If I speak for myself, it brought back some memories about matches and it is also funny to see how he predicted the early exit of Brazil but was overconfident on the day of the Italy-Brazil match itself.
     
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    Thanks and yes the Cruijff comments would be good to see if you'd like to do it.
     
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