The best players of the season 1985-6

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Some suggestions below for your consideration. As always, thoughts are very welcome.

    Goalkeepers
    Neville Southall (Everton and Wales)
    Helmuth Ducadem (Steaua Bucharest and Romania)
    Peter Shilton (Southampton and England)
    Stefano Tacconi (Jventus and Italy)
    Andoni Zubizarreta (Athletic Bilbao and Spain)
    Juan Carlos Ablanedo (Sporting Gijon and Spain)
    Thomas N'Kono (Cameroon and Espanyol)
    Joel Bats (Paris Saint-Germain and France)
    Franco Tancredi (Roma and Italy)
    Giovanni Galli (Fiorentina and Italy)
    Rinat Dasaev (Spartak Moscow and USSR)
    Hans Van Breukelen (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands)
    Uli Stein (Hamburg and West Germany)
    Manuel Bento (Benfica and Portugal)

    Full-backs
    Antonio Cabrini (Juventus and Italy)
    Manuel Amoros (Monaco and France)
    Gary Stevens (Everton and England)
    Kenny Sansom (Arsenal and England)
    Anatoliy Demyanenko (Dynamo Kiev and USSR)
    Luciano Favero (Juventus and Italy)
    Chendo (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Jose Antonio Camacho (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Tomas (Atletico Madrid and Spain)
    Julio Alberto (Barcelona and Spain)
    William Ayache (Nantes and France)
    Sebastiano Nela (Roma and Italy)
    Stefan Iovan (Romania and Steaua Bucharest)
    Eric Gerets (PSV Eindhoven and Belgium)
    Norbert Eder (Bayern Munich and West Germany)
    Sandy Jardine (Hearts and Scotland)

    Central defenders
    Daniel Passarella (Fiorentina and Argentina)
    Franco Baresi (AC Milan and Italy)
    Mark Lawrenson (Liverpool and Republic of Ireland)
    Paul McGrath (Manchester United and Republic of Ireland)
    Gaetano Scirea (Juventus and Italy)
    Manuel Sanchis (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Antonio Maceda (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Andoni Goikotxea (Athletic Bilbao and Spain)
    Jon Andoni Larrañaga (Real Sociedad and Spain)
    Alan Hansen (Liverpool and Scotland)
    Renato Zaccarelli (Torino and Italy)
    Miodrag Belodidici (Steaua Bucharest and Romania)
    Adrian Bumbescu (Romania and Steaua Bucharest)
    Alecsanco (Barcelona and Spain)
    Morten Olsen (Anderlecht and Denmark)
    Ronald Koeman (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Klaus Augenthaler (Bayern Munich and West Germany)
    Bruno Pezzey (Werder Bremen and Austria)
    Karlheinz Forster (Stuttgart and West Germany)
    Thomas Hörster (Bayer Leverkusen and West Germany)
    Richard Gough (Dundee United and Scotland)
    Yvon Le Roux (Nantes and France)

    Central midfielders
    Bryan Robson (Manchester United and England)
    Luis Fernandez (Paris Saint-Germain and France)
    Soren Lerby (Bayern Munich and Denmark)
    Frank Rijkaard (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Salvatore Bagni (Napoli and Italy)
    Carlo Ancelotti (Roma and Italy)
    Junior (Torino and Italy)
    Laszlo Boloni (Romania and Steaua Bucharest)
    Heinz Hermann (Neuchatel Xamax and Switzerland)
    Lothar Matthaus (Bayern Munich and West Germany)
    Jaime Pacheco (Sporting Lisbon and Portugal)
    Carlos Manuel (Benfica and Portugal)
    Paul McStay (Celtic and Scotland)
    Fernando De Napoli (Avellino and Italy)

    Attacking midfielders
    Ruud Gullit (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands)
    Michel Platini (Juventus and France)
    Diego Maradona (Napoli and Argentina)
    Glenn Hoddle (Tottenham Hotspur and England
    Juan Señor (Real Zaragoza and Spain)
    Safet Susic (Paris Saint-Germain and Yugoslavia)
    Zbigniew Boniek (Roma and Poland)
    Gheorghe Hagi (Sportul Studentesc Bucharest)
    Alexander Zavarov (Dynamo Kiev and USSR)
    Jan Ceulemans (Club Brugge and Belgium)
    Hallvar Thoresen (PSV and Norway)
    Asgeir Sigurvinsson (Stuttgart and Iceland)
    Karl Allgower (Stuttgart and West Germany)
    Jorge Burrachaga (Nantes and Argentina)

    Wingers
    Michel (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Roberto Donadoni (Atalanta and Italy)
    Dirceu (Como and Brazil)
    Gavril Balint (Romania and Steaua Bucharest)
    Vasiliy Rats (Dynamo Kiev and USSR)
    Gerald Vanenberg (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Paulo Futre (Porto and Portugal)
    Chris Waddle (Tottenham Hotspur and England)
    John Barnes (Watford and England)
    Quique Setien (Atletico Madrid and Spain)

    Forwards
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (Internazionale and West Germany)
    Emilio Butragueno (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Jorge Valdano (Real Madrid and Argentina)
    Dominique Rochetau (Paris Saint-Germain and France)
    Michael Laudrup (Juventus and Denmark)
    Ramon Diaz (Avellino and Argentina)
    Preben Elkjaer-Larsen (Hellas Verona and Denmark)
    Marius Lacatus (Romania and Steaua Bucharest)
    Igor Belanov (Dynamo Kiev and USSR)
    Oleg Blokhin (Dynamo Kiev and USSR)
    Mark Hughes (Manchester United and Wales)

    Strikers
    Marco Van Basten (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Gary Lineker (Everton and England)
    Victor Piturca (Steaua Bucharest and Romania)
    Ian Rush (Liverpool and Wales)
    Hugo Sanchez (Real Madrid and Mexico)
    Roberto Pruzzo (Roma and Italy)
    Jules Mocande (Metz and Senegal)
    Stefano Borgonovo (Como and Italy)
    Stefan Kuntz (Bochum and West Germany)
    Manuel Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon and Portugal)
    Paulinho Cascavel (Vitoria Guimaraes and Brazil)
    Toni Polster (Austria Vienna and Austria)
    Erwin Vandenbergh (Anderlecht and Belgium)
    Jean-Pierre Papin (Club Brugges and France)
    Ally McCoist (Rangers and Scotland)


  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Gullit also played as libero very often.

    I quote from another thread:
    Show Spoiler

    Line-ups notice him as:

    1985/1986PSV - Haarlem 1:0 - right-winger
    Den Bosch - PSV 0:2 - center-forward
    PSV - Fortuna Sittard 2:1 - center-forward - 1 goal
    Ajax - PSV 2:4 - center-forward - 2 goals
    PSV - Twente 4:0 - center-forward - 1 goal (the first)
    Sparta - PSV 1:1 - center-forward - 1 goal
    PSV - Excelsior 4:0 - central-defender
    MVV - PSV 0:6 - central-defender - 1 goal (the second)
    PSV - AZ 4:0 - central-defender
    NEC - PSV 2:5 - central-defender - 1 goal
    Groningen - PSV 1:6 - central-defender
    PSV - VVV 3:0 - central-defender
    Heracles - PSV 0:2 - central-defender
    PSV - Roda JC 5:0 - central-defender
    Go Ahead - PSV 1:3 - right-winger - 2 goals
    PSV - Feyenoord 5:0 - central-defender
    Utrecht - PSV 0:3 - central-defender - 1 goal
    Haarlem - PSV 0:2 - central-defender
    PSV - Den Bosch 2:1 - central-defender - 1 goal
    Excelsior - PSV 0:1 - central-defender - 1 goal
    PSV - Ajax 1:1 - central-defender
    Twente - PSV 1:3 - central-defender - 1 goal
    PSV - MVV 3:0 - central-defender - 1 goal
    AZ - PSV 0:1 - central-midfielder
    PSV - NEC 2:0 - central-defender
    PSV - Groningen 0:0 - central-defender
    VVV - PSV 0:3 - center-forward
    Fortuna Sittard - PSV 2:2 - central-defender - 1 goal
    PSV - Sparta 1:1 - central-defender
    PSV - Heracles 5:0 - center-forward - 3 goals
    Roda - PSV 1:4 - center-forward - 2 goals
    PSV - Go Ahead 8:2 - center-forward - 2 goals
    Feyenoord - PSV 2:3 - right-winger - 2 goals
    PSV - Utrecht 1:1 - center-forward

    24 goals

    [....]

    As explanation I posted this:



    I doubt whether he was better as Platini but he was definitely better as in the subsequent season when he was transferred for a world transfer record.

    Anyhow, it did not really matter where he played, he was close to unstoppable. PSV played friendlies against Brazilian top sides and those athletic Brazilians were outmuscled and outpaced too.

    Back then many thought by the way that Van Basten and Gullit could not play together, or at least that you not get the best out of them.

    Belgian league had one of the most classic/legendary games off all-time. Two teams ended on the same amount of points and back then the winner was decided with a play-off game.

    With a nice goal of Vercauteren, among others.
    RoyOfTheRovers and schwuppe repped this.
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    No other than Rinus Michels said this at the event when Gullit received his 'PFA award' (and became one of the few who won both in the same year, also Jaap Stam and Van Bommel did this but in case of Van Bommel the league was already failing at that stage).

    Michels also started with a different striker at euro88 of course, with the same reason in mind (among other concerns) but as said earlier, Van Basten was after his ankle problems a different kind of player as before. Which made playing together perhaps easier.
  4. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Location:
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Country:
    Scotland
    Hopefully get the time tomorrow to add a bit more to this but glad to see comme recognise Paul McStay in this season. I would suggest that his finest year was our centenary year 87-88 but he definitely should make the grade for this year also.

    And it pains me to say it but unfortunately for Paul his devotion to Celtic hindered his career. We were truly awful during the 90's and he didn't deserve to have to toil in those teams with players who didn't deserve to be playing next to him.

    I wish now, with the benefit of hindsight, that he'd moved abroad. There was always plenty of interest in his services and, dare I say it, if he had done we may even have seen him get *** stars on here as I'm sure his game would have reached the heights it deserved but never attained by staying true to the club he loved.
    RoyOfTheRovers repped this.


  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Last thing about Gullit:

    I was looking for a video where he plays as libero for national team and made "Koeman-like" long passes. Of course he was not as good as Koeman in that department but he made a few nice strikes with pace and precision from the deep. Impressive to watch but it seems that they are banned from youtube. A pity, exactly because it shows his ability in something where he was not renowned for.

    Gullit was also invited to feature in the starting line-up in an official FIFA XI in July 1986 in the Rose Bowl.
    http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/fifa-xi.html

    But he was injured and just as Platini, Elkjaer and Lineker he did not play.

    Interesting is that Beckenbauer and Cruijff were the coach for the European all star team. Cruijff however aborted on the last moment. It was planned that Cruijff would play for one half as well (just to show what a 39 years old man can do, haha).
    Even more interesting is that selecting Gullit was not Cruijff his idea but the one of Beckenbauer.


    Last thing:

    I watched a great documentary series about Soviet football a while ago.

    As known, the Soviet Union was one of the pioneers in applying mathematical computer models at football. They kept a file of Gullit since 1982! Long before he became a world star the Soviet thought, with high priority even, "we should track this guy". Really.
    All world stars were caught in a computer model. That is what they tried at least. Platini and Van Basten had very high values in the dimensions of those models - in some dimensions even the maximum value or close to it. Interesting is that Maradona, for whatever reason, did not score as high as the two above.

    Gullit however was a problem for them. He was the only one of all world stars, and one of the three in their priority file with over 500 names they could not properly model. In the words of a former member of Lobanovsky his staff and Mikhailichenko he transcended the theoretical boundaries of what was possible. They could not reflect or copy him in a computer model. They could model Platini or Van Basten in a satisfactory way but not Gullit.

    Of course, it did not mean that Gullit was the best or whatever. I do not want to suggest that. But I found this a funny thing to share. In a way he departed from the conventional parameters apparently.
  6. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Gullit was a phenom. The greatest combination of technique and physicality I have ever seen.
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Who is the one with the best technique you saw? Or the group of players with the best technique?
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    ?
  9. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Sorry, I think it's a very difficult question in terms of technique and its application. Also the different technical requirements of each position. Also a question of peak v. duration.

    However, the likes of Riquelme, Messi, Baresi, Zidane, Nesta, Rush, Van Basten, Rui Costa all stood out as being technically exceptional.
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes, I see what you mean, therefore I also asked for 'group of players'. I agree that technique have many different components.

    Indeed, Van Basten was one of my youth idols and the conceptions people develop in their youth tends to become an idealized form of reality; as if that was the purest way to play the game. An image set in stone.
    In a different way also Michael Laudrup was one of my idols. Laudrup looked even more "in control" without a sweat but had on the other hand not the same variety of trickery or surprising solutions. His younger brother Brian Laudrup was more fond of the one-touch plays and back-heels.

    Show Spoiler


    [shitty music at the beginning but images are nice]








    For me the 'greatest combination of technique and physicality' was I think Ronaldinho. Incredibly strong and a very impressive posture. Also great skill and by that I do not only mean the flashy stepovers and tricks but also the trapping, one touch play, variety of passing and variety of goals he scored (long, short, power, lobs etcetera). The whole range of imagination.
    People often talk about the Brazilian Ronaldo but IMO he was technically not close to perfection despite being a true phenomenon (arguably the only 'world all-time player' who could unintentionally copy Cruyff his trademark "double acceleration" move - don't know how it is called in English but here it is called "double acceleration" or "acceleration within an acceleration"). Of course he had an abundance of technique but not the same flawless trapping or elegance or prowess (as Ronaldinho).

    Yes, I see what you mean that it has many aspects and applications but if weigh every pro and cons then Ronaldinho comes very close arguably.
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I see that you included Vanenburg as well. Without wanting to sound too nationalistic but he was renowned for his good technique and especially his poise, balance and quick footwork as well. But technique has so many different aspects indeed.
    He was sometimes compared with Scifo by the way, some with too much homerism said "Scifo at fast-forward".



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ivi6VuaSk_k#t=178s
    [goal at 3:05]

    In this brief preview of a longer documentary (aired in Holland and Belgium) Van Basten says it too:

    "He processed the ball under his feet, from left to right and the other way around. Very quick, speedy with his feet and what surprised people was that he did constantly new things with the ball. He was better as me on the age of 15, 16 and 17. He was the big prospect."

    Just as Scifo he never lived up to expectations although Scifo had a better international career overall I'd say. It has been suggested that he was born in the wrong age too.

    Anyhow, he was during the mid 80s renowned for his great technique too just as Scifo (but I rank Scifo a fair bit higher overall).

    Olaf Thon also spring to mind as someone who caused a big roar and buzz, even in the Netherlands yes. Littbarski too of course but that was already an established name.
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Found some good Gullit videos as well:
    Show Spoiler

    From this era:


    Later eras:






    Received in some ways not the same respect as other 'stars' in his own country. Was during his playing days and also nowadays the subject in many jokes, laughing about him and so on. He did not always took himself very seriously and others neither. Rijkaard is funnily higher respected, one might say.
    He is maybe also a bit too much the extravagant, extrovert glamorous cosmopolitan citizen for others and TBH I never liked him too as person. Is also collaborating with Murdoch unfortunately.
  13. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Country:
    Scotland
    I'd give Paul McStay a * rating for this season. He collected his 2nd league title medal this season as Celtic dramatically snatched the title from Hearts on the last day of the season(a game in which McStay scored and also assisted in) and had also forced his way into international selection.

    Paul McStay was a wonderful centre mid. Not for nothing was he called 'the maestro'. He had excellent vision and control and range of passing to match it. He had his downside as well. He could have been a bit more composed at times when goal scoring opportunities came his way but Paul was the provider, not the finisher of chances. In saying that he was a terrific striker of a ball and should have scored more than he did. The youtube video below highlights this but also shows glimpses of his all round ability. Admittedly this video includes matches throughout his career and not just the 85-86 season -



    Below are the highlights of the last game of the season against St.Mirren that clinched the title. You can see how heavily involved Paul McStay is, and also Mo Johnston and Brian McLair. All 3 played a part in the 3rd goal that was rightly called 'goal of the season' and is still known as one of Celtic's finest goals to date both for the build up of the goal and the crucial match it was scored in.



    Both McClair and Johnston were pivotal in helping us win the title by and large due to our excellent form in the 2nd half of the season but I'm not certain either should be considered for inclusion in the 85-86 list. As I mentioned on a previous thread, they formed an excellent partnership on the field but were like chalk and cheese off it and did not get along too well.





    * Also worth noting regarding McStay, but bares no semblance to this thread is the fact that Paul McStay captained the Scotland U-18's to glory in the UEFA U-18 European Championship in 1981. To date, it is still the only major trophy won by the Scottish Football Association.*
    comme and PDG1978 repped this.
  14. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    This was my "final" rating for the season. Quite a few areas I feel unsure of, particularly in defence but anyway, here it is:

    Goalkeepers
    Helmuth Ducadem (Steaua Bucharest and Romania) 32 games, 0 goals **
    Peter Shilton (Southampton and England) 37 games, 0 goals **
    Stefano Tacconi (Juventus and Italy) 30 games, 0 goals **
    Andoni Zubizarreta (Athletic Bilbao and Spain) 34 games, 0 goals *
    Neville Southall (Everton and Wales) 32 games, 0 goals *
    Joel Bats (Paris Saint-Germain and France) 38 games, 0 goals
    Juan Carlos Ablanedo (Sporting Gijon and Spain) 34 games, 0 goals *
    Franco Tancredi (Roma and Italy) 30 games, 0 goals *
    Rinat Dasaev (Spartak Moscow and USSR) 34 games, 0 goals in 1985, 24 games, 0 goals in 1986 *
    Hans Van Breukelen (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands) 34 games, 0 goals *
    Uli Stein (Hamburg and West Germany) 34 games, 0 goals *
    Giovanni Galli (Fiorentina and Italy) 28 games, 0 goals *
    Thomas N'Kono (Espanyol and Cameroon) 32 games, 0 goals *
    Manuel Bento (Benfica and Portugal) 29 games, 0 goals *

    Full-backs
    Antonio Cabrini (Juventus and Italy) 30 games, 2 goals **
    Manuel Amoros (Monaco and France) 28 games, 2 goals **
    Stefan Iovan (Romania and Steaua Bucharest) 29 games, 7 goals **
    Anatoliy Demyanenko (Dynamo Kiev and USSR) 34 games, 8 goals in 1985, 29 games, 2 goals in 1986 **
    Chendo (Real Madrid and Spain) 30 games, 0 goals *
    William Ayache (Nantes and France) 37 games, 0 goals *
    Sebastiano Nela (Roma and Italy) 28 games, 2 goals *
    Jose Antonio Camacho (Real Madrid and Spain) 29 games, 0 goals *
    Gary Stevens (Everton and England) 41 games, 1 goal *
    Eric Gerets (PSV Eindhoven and Belgium) 29 games, 0 goals *
    Julio Alberto (Barcelona and Spain) 29 games, 2 goals *
    Kenny Sansom (Arsenal and England) 42 games, 0 goals *
    Luciano Favero (Juventus and Italy) 30 games, 1 goal *
    Norbert Eder (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 34 games, 2 goals *
    Tomas (Renones) (Atletico Madrid and Spain) 32 games, 0 goals
    Sandy Jardine (Hearts and Scotland) 35 games, 0 goals *

    Central defenders
    Daniel Passarella (Fiorentina and Argentina) 29 games, 11 goals ***
    Mark Lawrenson (Liverpool and Republic of Ireland) 38 games, 3 goals **
    Antonio Maceda (Real Madrid and Spain) 28 games, 5 goals **
    Renato Zaccarelli (Torino and Italy) 29 games, 1 goals **
    Miodrag Belodidici (Steaua Bucharest and Romania) 32 games, 2 goals **
    Paul McGrath (Manchester United and Republic of Ireland) 40 games, 3 goals **
    Thomas Horster (Bayer Leverkusen and West Germany) 31 games, 1 goal *
    Jon Andoni Larrañaga (Real Sociedad and Spain) 33 games, 2 goals *
    Alan Hansen (Liverpool and Scotland) 41 games, 0 goals *
    Gaetano Scirea (Juventus and Italy) 25 games, 0 goals *
    Andoni Goikotxea (Athletic Bilbao and Spain) 31 games, 5 goals *
    Adrian Bumbescu (Romania and Steaua Bucharest) 33 games, 0 goals *
    Bruno Pezzey (Werder Bremen and Austria) 33 games, 6 goals *
    Alecsanco (Barcelona and Spain) 31 games, 7 goals *
    Klaus Augenthaler (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 34 games, 4 goals *
    Morten Olsen (Anderlecht and Denmark) 34 games, 0 goals *
    Ronald Koeman (Ajax and Netherlands) 32 games, 7 goals *
    Karlheinz Forster (Stuttgart and West Germany) 27 games, 1 goal *
    Manuel Sanchis (Real Madrid and Spain) 28 games, 1 goal *
    Richard Gough (Dundee United and Scotland) 31 games, 5 goals *
    Franco Baresi (AC Milan and Italy) 20 games, 0 goals *
    Yvon Le Roux (Nantes and France) 37 games, 6 goals *

    Central midfielders
    Luis Fernandez (Paris Saint-Germain and France) 37 games, 9 goals **
    Soren Lerby (Bayern Munich and Denmark) 31 games, 8 goals **
    Frank Rijkaard (Ajax and Netherlands) 31 games, 9 goals **
    Salvatore Bagni (Napoli and Italy) 27 games, 4 goals **
    Laszlo Boloni (Steaua Bucharest and Romania) 31 games, 9 goals **
    Carlo Ancelotti (Roma and Italy) 29 games, 0 goals *
    Junior (Torino and Italy) 30 games, 4 goals *
    Jaime Pacheco (Sporting Lisbon and Portugal) 27 games, 0 goals *
    Carlos Manuel (Benfica and Portugal) 25 games, 7 goals *
    Jan Molby (Liverpool and Denmark) 39 games, 13 goals *
    Paul McStay (Celtic and Scotland) 34 games, 8 goals *
    Fernando De Napoli (Avellino and Italy) 29 games, 1 goal *
    Heinz Hermann (Neuchatel Xamax and Switzerland) 30 games, 8 goals *
    Lothar Matthaus (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 23 games, 10 goals *
    Bryan Robson (Manchester United and England) 21 games, 7 goals *

    Attacking midfielders
    Ruud Gullit (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands) 34 games, 24 goals ***
    Diego Maradona (Napoli and Argentina) 29 games, 11 goals ***
    Michel Platini (Juventus and France) 30 games, 12 goals ***
    Juan Señor (Real Zaragoza and Spain) 33 games, 15 goals **
    Safet Susic (Paris Saint-Germain and Yugoslavia) 37 games, 10 goals **
    Gheorghe Hagi (Sportul Studentesc Bucharest) 31 games, 31 goals **
    Alexander Zavarov (Dynamo Kiev and USSR) 31 games, 9 goals in 1985, 20 games, 4 goals in 1986 **
    Hallvar Thoresen (PSV Eindhoven and Norway) 31 games, 20 goals **
    Karl Allgower (Stuttgart and West Germany) 33 games, 21 goals **

    Jorge Burrachaga (Nantes and Argentina) 36 games, 9 goals *
    Zbigniew Boniek (Roma and Poland) 29 games, 7 goals *
    Jan Ceulemans (Club Brugge and Belgium) 31 games, 13 goals *
    Asgeir Sigurvinsson (Stuttgart and Iceland) 32 games, 9 goals *
    Glenn Hoddle (Tottenham Hotspur and England) 31 games, 7 goals *
    Jose Maria Bakero (Real Sociedad and Spain) 29 games, 16 goals *

    Wingers
    Michel (Real Madrid and Spain) 31 games, 5 goals ***
    Roberto Donadoni (Atalanta and Italy) 30 games, 3 goals **
    Chris Waddle (Tottenham Hotspur and England) 39 games, 11 goals *
    Gavril Balint (Steaua Bucharest and Romania) 31 games, 3 goals *
    Vasiliy Rats (Dynamo Kiev and USSR) 34 games, 6 goals in 1985, 30 games, 7 goals in 1986 *
    Gerald Vanenberg (Ajax and Netherlands) 34 games, 12 goals *
    Paulo Futre (Porto and Portugal) 26 games, 7 goals *
    John Barnes (Watford and England) 39 games, 9 goals *
    Quique Setien (Atletico Madrid and Spain) 30 games, 5 goals *
    Dirceu (Como and Brazil) 25 games, 2 goals *

    Forwards
    Jorge Valdano (Real Madrid and Argentina) 32 games, 16 goals ***
    Igor Belanov (Dynamo Kiev and USSR) 31 games, 10 goals in 1985, 22 games, 10 goals in 1986 ***
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (Internazionale and West Germany) 24 games, 13 goals **
    Oleg Blokhin (Dynamo Kiev and USSR) 29 games, 12 goals in 1985, 23 games, 2 goals in 1986 **
    Emilio Butragueno (Real Madrid and Spain) 31 games, 10 goals **
    Dominique Rochetau (Paris Saint-Germain and France) 35 games, 19 goals **
    Michael Laudrup (Juventus and Denmark) 29 games, 7 goals *
    Mark Hughes (Manchester United and Wales) 40 games, 17 goals *
    Ramon Diaz (Avellino and Argentina) 27 games, 10 goals *
    Preben Elkjaer-Larsen (Hellas Verona and Denmark) 21 games, 9 goals *
    Marius Lacatus (Steaua Bucharest and Romania) 31 games, 7 goals *

    Strikers
    Gary Lineker (Everton and England) 41 games, 30 goals ***
    Marco Van Basten (Ajax and Netherlands) 26 games, 37 goals ***
    Victor Piturca (Steaua Bucharest and Romania) 34 games, 29 goals ***
    Manuel Fernandes (Sporting Lisbon and Portugal) 29 games, 30 goals ***
    Hugo Sanchez (Real Madrid and Mexico) 33 games, 22 goals **
    Roberto Pruzzo (Roma and Italy) 24 games, 19 goals **
    Toni Polster (Austria Vienna and Austria) 34 games, 32 goals **
    Ian Rush (Liverpool and Wales) 40 games, 22 goals *
    Jules Bocande (Metz and Senegal) 32 games, 23 goals *
    Stefan Kuntz (Bochum and West Germany) 34 games, 22 goals *
    Erwin Vandenbergh (Anderlecht and Belgium) 31 games, 27 goals *
    Jean-Pierre Papin (Club Brugges and France) 33 games, 21 goals *
    Ally McCoist (Rangers and Scotland) 33 games, 24 goals *
    Aldo Serena (Juventus and Italy) 25 games, 11 goals *
    Stefano Borgonovo (Como and Italy) 29 games, 10 goals *
    Paulinho Cascavel (Vitoria Guimaraes and Brazil) 30 games, 25 goals *
  15. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    The provisional ranking for world class players was:

    1. Gary Lineker
    2. Ruud Gullit
    3. Diego Maradona
    4. Marco Van Basten
    5. Jorge Valdano
    6. Igor Belanov
    7. Victor Piturca
    8. Daniel Passarella
    9. Michel
    10. Michel Platini
    11. Manuel Fernandes
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Why was Lineker #1 in your view?
  17. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    He was the stand out player by far in what was still probably the strongest league in Europe at this point. Everton were a fraction away from doing the double (just two points behind Liverpool and beaten Cup finalists) and owed a huge amount of that to him.

    He also performed in every competition available to him and (not a massive factor at all) scored a hat-trick in the WC qualifiers against Turkey.

    I don't think he was a clear no. 1, but those were my thoughts.
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
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    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Sorry for late reply.

    Yes, agree it makes sense. Was curious because Lineker had a excellent 1986WC but was in tournament previews, though mentioned, rarely marked as possible star of the tournament (like Maradona, Platini etc.). Maybe journalists are just lazy and go along with the hype machine, and follow what others plug, but nevertheless funny.
    What are your thoughts about the aspects that brought Maradona at the World Cup to a few classes higher? You do not rank him here as best player of the season and can agree that evidence available hints that (i.e. 84-85 was better, also based on own impressions) but that makes it astonishing that he could find a few extra gears. The question is why (excellent coach?) and how.

    What were your considerations for rating 'young' Michel as world class? Instead of Butragueno or another RM player.

    Saw a while ago an Italian Gazzetta preview that mentions "stars who did not make the World Cup". I know it is anecdotal but they mentioned a few Swedish, Yugoslavian players but also some Romanian players and Gullit/Van Basten (they saw the first one as -possibly- the most expensive European player to buy around at that time). So including a fair share of Romanian players is a good call I think.
  19. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    I think that Lineker had not played much for England going into the 1986 World Cup, had previously been at Leicester who were unfashionable and then his single season at Everton coincided with them being banned from Europe.

    Had the club been allowed in Europe there may well have been a lot of buzz around him. Their potential route to the final would have been Anderlecht (who were obviously a strong side), but then Omonia of Cyprus, Bayern (who they'd beaten in the semis the previous season), then Steaua and then Barca. Not easy, but I could have seen Lineker doing well.

    I think the Maradona question is a difficult one to answer. Clearly he was a superb player, but in terms of the actual causes of his success it is difficult to pinpoint outside of a team designed around him and a bit of luck along the way, allied to great individual talent.

    Argentina certainly prepared well with a lot of altitude training, but to be honest, I'm sure most teams did.

    In terms of Michel and Butragueno, I know Michel was highly rated in the Spanish papers (from msioux's posts) and I have always been slightly unsure about Butragueno. He was somewhere between a forward and a striker and yet he scored relatively few goals. Never fully understood why he was quite so highly rated. I think I might have mentioned this before but I was sat behind Butragueno at a match at Euro 2008. I should have asked him then!!
  20. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    I suppose this doesn't include the WC, otherwise it's Maradona several notches above anyone. If we take out the WC, Lineker should not be #1, as players like Platini, Boniek, Schuster and Elkjaer all had better years. Also, it seems your excluding those playing outside of Europe, don't see Francescoli, Bochini, Romero, Socrates or Cabanas listed.
  21. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Good preparation plus a team built around a great player plus a coach who nurtured this player means a potential great performance, as happened with Zidane at WC06, Romario at WC94, Baggio at WC94, Ronaldo at WC98. The difference from those great performances with Maradona's at WC86 is Maradona himself: the most talented footballer of all time in his moment.
  22. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Do you base these opinions on anything or just make them up?

    What put Schuster ahead of Lineker for this season?

    Lineker scored 30 goals in the league while Schuster only played 22 and was not even one of he best rated players on his own team.
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Did you consider to rate Laudrup higher? It is by some seen as his best Juventus season and many of his team mates have said that he had a big input. Unfortunately for him, the stars started to fade from then on (Scirea, Platini, Cabrini etcetera).

    Mentioned/talked it on PM to PDG but this one has all his goals in serie A


    I personally noticed that a big share of those goals were of high quality, although he did not score a lot.
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I'd possibly consider categorising him as an AM or winger even rather than forward but my knowledge of the line-up week in week out is not complete:


    I've only watched the highlights but here is the full game:

    Here's another (Platini was Man of the Match and I know that an individual video is available for him):


    Basically I think Laudrup took Boniek's role, which wasn't as a central SS in my understanding. Often as a nominally left sided AM I'd say but that is almost the role of a forward anyway and quite a free role I think (but not the same as Belanov, Elkjaer etc were playing). The tap-in goal vs Milan for example on the goals video has him wearing number 8 and coming in from the right side so maybe he played a different role at times. To be fair to comme, the average rating for him was good but not unbelievable that season and his goals stats indeed don't stand out - perhaps neither his assists stats from what I've seen of Juve goals for the season but you might know more than me about that Puck. Anyway, just as at Barca and for Denmark (and like you said this applied to Maradona too) his stats won't reveal his quality of play really and he was highly regarded particularly for that season I believe.
    He comes off well in this video I think, but of course it's just one game:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFN0nOML5eI
  25. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Schuster had a very good season that year, and I remember Barcelona reaching all the way to the final of the EC86 based on his play and leadership, their loss there had mostly to do with Steau parking the bus plus a bad game from Barca's strikers.

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