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The best players of the season 1986-7

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Jan 30, 2013.

Moderators: comme
  1. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Some initial thoughts on the best players of the season:

    Goalkeepers
    Neville Southall (Everton and Wales)
    Walter Zenga (Internazionale and Italy)
    Andoni Zubizarreta (Barcelona and Spain)
    Jean-Marie Pfaff (Bayern Munich and Belgium)
    Peter Shilton (Southampton and England)
    Stefano Tacconi (Juventus and Italy)
    Paco Buyo (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Michel Preudhomme (Mechelen and Belgium)
    Rinat Dasaev (Spartak Moscow and Soviet Union)
    Chris Woods (Rangers and England)
    Stanley Menzo (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Dominique Dropsy (Bordeaux and France)
    Rene Muller (Lokomotiv Leipzig and East Germany)
    Hans van Breukelen (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands)

    Full-backs
    Luigi De Agostini (Hellas Verona and Italy)
    Giovanni Francini (Torino and Italy)
    Ciro Ferrara (Napoli and Italy)
    Giuseppe Bergomi (Inter and Italy)
    Mauro Tassotti (AC Milan and Italy)
    Stefan Reuter (Nuremberg and West Germany)
    Joao Pinto (Porto and Portugal)
    Antonio Veloso (Benfica and Portugal)
    Hans Pflugler (Bayern Munich and West Germany)
    Norbert Eder (Bayern Munich and West Germany)
    Gary Stevens (Everton and England)
    Viv Anderson (Arsenal and England)
    Chendo (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Adri van Tiggelen (Anderlecht and Netherlands)
    Eric Gerets (PSV Eindhoven and Belgium)
    Jan Heintze (PSV Eindhoven and Denmark)
    Jean-Francois Domergue (Marseille and France)

    Centre backs
    Celso (Porto and Brazil)
    Franco Baresi (AC Milan and Italy)
    Alessandro Renica (Napoli and Italy)
    Migueli (Barcelona and Spain)
    Ronald Koeman (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands)
    Jurgen Kohler (Waldhof Mannheim and West Germany)
    Ditmar Jakobs (Hamburg and West Germany)
    Guido Buchwald (Stuttgart and West Germany)
    Thomas Horster (Bayer Leverkusen and West Germany)
    Patrick Battiston (Bordeaux and France)
    Alain Roche (Bordeaux and France)
    Klaus Augenthaler (Bayern Munich and West Germany)
    Manuel Sanchis (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Tony Adams (Arsenal and England)
    Kevin Ratcliffe (Everton and Wales)
    Alan Hansen (Liverpool and Scotland)
    Roberto Tricella (Hellas Verona and Italy)
    Terry Butcher (Rangers and England)
    Peter Larsson (IFK Gothenberg and Sweden)
    Glenn Hysen (IFK Gothenberg and Sweden)

    Central midfielders
    Lothar Matthaus (Bayern Munich and West Germany)
    Salvatore Bagni (Napoli and Italy)
    Fernando de Napoli (Napoli and Italy)
    Francesco Romano (Napoli and Italy)
    Fausto Salsano (Sampdoria and Italy)
    Ricardo Gallego (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Frank Rijkaard (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Jan Wouters (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Jean Tigana (Bordeaux and France)
    Ivan Hasek (Sparta Prague and Czechoslovakia)
    Victor Munoz (Barcelona and Spain)
    Lionello Manfredonia (Juventus and Italy)
    Steve McMahon (Liverpool and England)

    Attacking midfielders
    Diego Maradona (Napoli and Argentina)
    Gheorghe Hagi (Steaua Bucharest and Romania)
    Glenn Hoddle (Tottenham Hotspur and England)
    Rabah Madjer (Porto and Algeria)
    Marino Magrin (Atalanta and Italy)
    Arnor Gudjohnsen (Anderlecht and Iceland)
    Enzo Scifo (Anderlecht and Belgium)
    Alain Giresse (Marseille and France)
    Uwe Rahn ( Borussia Moenchengladbach and West Germany)
    Alexei Mikhailichenko (Dynamo Kiev and Soviet Union)
    Fyodor Cherenkov (Spartak Moscow and Soviet Union)
    Dragan Stojkovic (Red Star Belgrade and Yugoslavia)

    Wingers
    Paulo Futre (Porto and Portugal)
    Michel (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Andreas Brehme (Bayern Munich and Spain)
    John Barnes (Watford and England)
    Kevin Sheedy (Everton and Republic of Ireland)
    Trevor Steven (Everton and England)
    Gerald Vanenberg (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands)
    John van't Schip (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Davie Cooper (Rangers and Scotland)
    Francisco Carrasco (Barcelona and Spain)

    Forward
    Ruud Gullit (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands)
    Roberto Mancini (Sampdoria and Italy)
    Emilio Butragueno (Real Madrid and Spain)
    Ramon Diaz (Fiorentina and Italy)
    Brian McClair (Celtic and Scotland)
    Peter Beardsley (Newcastle United and England)
    Jan Ceulemans (Club Brugges and Belgium)

    Strikers
    Gary Lineker (Barcelona and England)
    Marco Van Basten (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Ian Rush (Liverpool and Wales)
    Hugo Sanchez (Real Madrid and Mexico)
    Clive Allen (Tottenham Hotspur and England)
    Rudi Völler (Werder Bremen and West Germany)
    Paolo Pietro Virdis (AC Milan and Italy)
    Gianluca Vialli (Sampdoria and Italy)
    Fernando Gomes (Porto and Portugal)
    Alessandro Altobelli (Internazionale and Italy)
    John Bosman (Ajax and Netherlands)
    Toni Polster (Austria Vienna and Austria)
    Ally McCoist (Rangers and Scotland)
    Rodion Camataru (Dinamo Bucharest and Romania)
    Oleg Protasov (Dnipro and Soviet Union)
    Paulinho Cascavel (Vitoria Guimares and Brazil)
     
    Tom Stevens repped this.


  2. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member

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    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
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    Looking forward to it. Maybe another player from Gotenburg as the UEFA cup winners it looks like they are going have two * players? Maybe Roland Nilsson at fullback/winger or Stefan Pettersson as a striker?
     
  3. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member

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    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
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    Also maybe a defender from Lokomotive Leipzig for making it to the cup winners cup final and only allowing 5 goals in the whole tournament, which was critical as they only scored 9. Ronald Kreer or Frank Baum?
     
  4. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Both reasonable suggestions I think. Will investigate further.

    One player I did miss who should be included is Enzo Francescoli in the forwards.
     


  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Feyenoord
    What do you know about his level?

    See that Cantona had one goal less as him.
     
  6. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Scored quite a number of goals and according to RSSSF he was voted the foreign player of the year in France for that season.
     
  7. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Country:
    Scotland
    Brian McClair

    Although Celtic went trophy-less this year Brian McClair rightly won the Scottish player of the year award. Largely for amassing 35 goals in the league. Some of his efforts were extra special but ultimately all in vain, such as the goal in the 2-1 League cup final defeat to Rangers.

    He really was in outstanding form this season and we dropped the ball by not making enough effort to sign him to a longer deal at the end of the season. He left for Manchester Utd. Celtic wanted at least £2mill for him but a tribunal decided Manchester Utd should pay only £850,000. We were fleeced.

    Definitely worth * star. Possibly on the edge between * and **

    I'll get back to this later (at lunchtime) with regards to the other Scottish teams and players.
     
  8. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

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    I'm sure he isn't worth a place in this but Ian Ferguson was a prominent member of the St.Mirren side that won the Scottish Cup this season.

    The team also featured the consistent but under appreciated Campbell Money in goal, the striking talents of Frank McAvennie up front (who I've played 5-a-sides against!!) and a young Paul Lambert.

    Ferguson scored the winner in the final and eventually moved to Rangers in '88 for a then sizeable amount = £850,000. He was only 20yrs old in '87 and, if you were to do a young player of the year for each season (;)), then he may be worth featuring.

    Incidentally, purely for trivia purposes, this was the last time the Scottish Cup was won with an all-Scottish squad.
     
    comme repped this.
  9. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

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    Rangers

    Chris Woods - definitely deserves inclusion as he played a major role in helping Rangers win their first domestic league title for quite some time. He was a large part of a defence that only conceded 23 goals all season long in the league and set a then British record for not conceding a goal over 11 consecutive matches. Considering the quality of the other keepers this year I'd have him as a safe * star

    Terry Butcher - much the same as above. He hardly put a foot wrong all season and as an outfield player he had more of an impact on matches and therefore possibly worthy of a ** rating. He even chipped in with a couple of goals. The second one came on the penultimate match of the season at Pittodrie in a 1-1 draw with Aberdeen which gave Rangers the title.

    Ian Durrant - maybe not his best season (that was 87/88) but he still shone brightly. Both him and Derek Ferguson provided the youth in Souness's Rangers. Durrant was an astute AM with good technique and the ability to time his runs into the box to perfection. Scored some important goals this season (notably against us, only goal of the game in the first derby of the season and a goal in the League cup final). Maybe another one of those players that could feature in comme's young player of the years :geek: .

    Ally McCoist - 36 goals in 50 matches. Says it all really. Although he was the main penalty kick taker which always helps. Especially with Rangers in Scotland (what!! come on, I had to get some dig in. it's painful writing this :cry:). McCoist was the prototypical penalty box predator. Extremely quick off the mark. Excellent reflexes and a knack for knowing where to be in the box. Obviously I'm biased as I would still have McClair over him anyday. A far more complete player in my opinion. But McCoist definitely deserves to be rated for * star at least due to his goal scoring prowess alone.

    Davie Cooper - supremely talented left winger who, on his day, could single handedly take apart any team. Unfortunately, with most wingers, he wasn't on his day enough. But 86/87 was by far his most consistent season for Rangers. A great talent. * star
     
    comme repped this.
  10. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

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    Club:
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    Country:
    Scotland
    Dundee Utd

    A season of heartbreak for Utd as they lost the UEFA cup final(beating Barcelona and Borussia MG on the way), the Scottish cup final, knocked out in the semi's of the league cup and finished 3rd in the league. 3pts behind Celtic and 9 behind Rangers.

    Still, certain players deserve credit -

    John Clark - started his career as a centre forward which was in evidence in his real breakthrough season of 86/87 where, from CB, he scored 7 goals. This included 4 in the UEFA cup run which made him top scorer for Utd that season in Europe. He scored in the 2 legged UEFA cup final and also in the Camp Nou -



    He may be worth considering for a * star but your CB list is already full to bursting by the looks of things.


    Maurice Malpas - already a Scotland international and by the end of 1987 he had captained his country. Consistency was his middle name. Again, possibly worthy of consideration for * star in the full back category.



    The fact that Utd played 67 competitive matches that season certainly took its toll on the team and hampered their bid for silverware.
     
  11. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Good information. I always liked Durrant a lot. Thought he was a class player who rarely got the plaudits he deserved.
     
  12. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    A revised draft with ratings


    Goalkeepers
    Neville Southall (Everton and Wales) 31 games, 0 goals ***
    Walter Zenga (Internazionale and Italy) 29 games, 0 goals ***
    Andoni Zubizarreta (Barcelona and Spain) 44 games, 0 goals **
    Jean-Marie Pfaff (Bayern Munich and Belgium) 34 games, 0 goals **
    Stanley Menzo (Ajax and Netherlands) 34 games, 0 goals **
    Rene Muller (Lokomotiv Leipzig and East Germany) 26 games, 0 goals **
    Stefano Tacconi (Juventus and Italy) 30 games, 0 goals *
    Paco Buyo (Real Madrid and Spain) 44 games, 0 goals *
    Michel Preudhomme (Mechelen and Belgium) 34 games, 0 goals *
    Rinat Dasaev (Spartak Moscow and Soviet Union)24 games, 0 goals in 1986, 29 games, 0 goals in 1987 *
    Chris Woods (Rangers and England) 42 games, 0 goals *
    Dominique Dropsy (Bordeaux and France) 38 games, 0 goals *
    Peter Shilton (Southampton and England) 29 games, 0 goals *
    Hans van Breukelen (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands) 33 games, 0 goals *

    Full-backs
    Luigi De Agostini (Hellas Verona and Italy) 30 games, 3 goals ***
    Joao Pinto (Porto and Portugal) 29 games, 3 goals **
    Ciro Ferrara (Napoli and Italy) 28 games, 2 goals **
    Chendo (Real Madrid and Spain) 40 games, 0 goals *
    Eric Gerets (PSV Eindhoven and Belgium) 30 games, 1 goal *
    Giuseppe Bergomi (Inter and Italy) 28 games, 2 goals *
    Gary Stevens (Everton and England) 25 games, 2 goals
    Stefan Reuter (Nuremberg and West Germany) 33 games, 6 goals *
    Giovanni Francini (Torino and Italy) 30 games, 3 goals *
    Antonio Veloso (Benfica and Portugal) 30 games, 0 goals *
    Hans Pflugler (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 32 games, 7 goals *
    Mauro Tassotti (AC Milan and Italy) 24 games, 1 goal *
    Adri van Tiggelen (Anderlecht and Netherlands) 31 games, 2 goals *
    Norbert Eder (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 32 games, 1 goals *
    Jan Heintze (PSV Eindhoven and Denmark) 34 games, 1 goal *
    Jean-Francois Domergue (Marseille and France) 38 games, 6 goals *
    Viv Anderson (Arsenal and England) 40 games, 4 goals *

    Centre backs
    Kevin Ratcliffe (Everton and Wales) 42 games, 0 goals **
    Terry Butcher (Rangers and England) 43 games, 3 goals **
    Migueli (Barcelona and Spain) 41 games, 0 goals **
    Klaus Augenthaler (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 25 games, 4 goals *
    Manuel Sanchis (Real Madrid and Spain) 36 games, 2 goals *
    Tony Adams (Arsenal and England) 42 games, 6 goals *
    Peter Larsson (IFK Gothenberg and Sweden) 22 games, 0 goals in 1986, 20 games, 2 goals *
    Jurgen Kohler (Waldhof Mannheim and West Germany) 32 games, 3 goals *
    Alessandro Renica (Napoli and Italy) 29 games, 1 goal *
    Alain Roche (Bordeaux and France) 28 games, 0 goals *
    Frank Baum (Lokomotiv Leipzig and East Germany) 21 games, 1 goal *

    Liberos
    Celso (Porto and Brazil) 23 games, 1 goal ***
    Franco Baresi (AC Milan and Italy) 28 games, 2 goals ***
    Ronald Koeman (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands) 34 games, 16 goals ***
    Alan Hansen (Liverpool and Scotland) 39 games, 0 goals **
    Patrick Battiston (Bordeaux and France) 32 games, 0 goals **
    Glenn Hysen (IFK Gothenberg and Sweden) 23 games, 3 goals in 1986, 8 games, 1 goal in 1987 *
    Thomas Horster (Bayer Leverkusen and West Germany) 32 games, 1 goals *
    Roberto Tricella (Hellas Verona and Italy) 28 games, 0 goals *
    Ditmar Jakobs (Hamburg and West Germany) 32 games, 1 goal *
    Guido Buchwald (Stuttgart and West Germany) 33 games, 2 goals *

    Central midfielders
    Lothar Matthaus (Bayern Munich and West Germany) 31 games, 17 goals ***
    Salvatore Bagni (Napoli and Italy) 28 games, 4 goals **
    Frank Rijkaard (Ajax and Netherlands) 34 games, 7 goals **
    Jean Tigana (Bordeaux and France) 37 games, 0 goals *
    Ivan Hasek (Sparta Prague and Czechoslovakia) 30 games, 10 goals *
    Victor Munoz (Barcelona and Spain) 41 games, 4 goals *
    Lionello Manfredonia (Juventus and Italy) 28 games, 7 goals *
    Ricardo Gallego (Real Madrid and Spain) 36 games, 3 goals *
    Jan Wouters (Ajax and Netherlands) 32 games, 4 goals *
    Francesco Romano (Napoli and Italy) 24 games, 2 goals *
    Steve McMahon (Liverpool and England) 37 games, 5 goals *
    Fausto Salsano (Sampdoria and Italy) 29 games, 1 goal *

    Attacking midfielders
    Diego Maradona (Napoli and Argentina) 29 games, 10 goals ***
    Uwe Rahn (Borussia Moenchengladbach and West Germany) 31 games, 24 goals ***
    Fernando de Napoli (Napoli and Italy) 28 games, 2 goals **
    Arnor Gudjohnsen (Anderlecht and Iceland) 34 games, 19 goals **
    Dragan Stojkovic (Red Star Belgrade and Yugoslavia) 32 games, 17 goals *
    Glenn Hoddle (Tottenham Hotspur and England) 35 games, 3 goals *
    Rabah Madjer (Porto and Algeria) 20 games, 8 goals *
    Enzo Scifo (Anderlecht and Belgium) 33 games, 8 goals *
    Alexei Mikhailichenko (Dynamo Kiev and Soviet Union) 20 games, 12 goals in 1986, 28 games, 9 goals in 1987 *
    Alain Giresse (Marseille and France) 34 games, 4 goals *
    Fyodor Cherenkov (Spartak Moscow and Soviet Union) 22 games, 8 goals in 1986, 27 games, 12 goals in 1987 *
    Giuseppe Giannini (Roma and Italy) 25 games, 3 goals *
    Gheorghe Hagi (Sportul/Steaua Bucharest and Romania) 16 games, 5 goals for Sportul, 14 games, 10 goals for Steaua *

    Wingers
    Paulo Futre (Porto and Portugal) 25 games, 10 goals ***
    Michel (Real Madrid and Spain) 44 games, 5 goals **
    Gerald Vanenberg (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands) 34 games, 9 goals **
    Trevor Steven (Everton and England) 41 games, 14 goals **
    Marino Magrin (Atalanta and Italy) 29 games *
    Andreas Brehme (Bayern Munich and Spain) 31 games, 4 goals *
    John Barnes (Watford and England) 37 games, 10 goals *
    Kevin Sheedy (Everton and Republic of Ireland) 28 games, 13 goals *
    John van't Schip (Ajax and Netherlands) 33 games, 1 goal *
    Davie Cooper (Rangers and Scotland) 42 games, 8 goals *
    Francisco Carrasco (Barcelona and Spain) 31 games, 6 goals *

    Forward
    Ruud Gullit (PSV Eindhoven and Netherlands) 34 games, 22 goals ***
    Roberto Mancini (Sampdoria and Italy) 26 games, 6 goals **
    Brian McClair (Celtic and Scotland) 44 games, 35 goals **
    Emilio Butragueno (Real Madrid and Spain) 35 games, 11 goals **
    Peter Beardsley (Newcastle United and England) 32 games, 5 goals *
    Jan Ceulemans (Club Brugges and Belgium) 28 games, 12 goals *
    Enzo Francescoli (Racing Paris and Uruguay) 35 games, 14 goals *
    Ramon Diaz (Fiorentina and Italy) 29 games, 10 goals *

    Strikers
    Hugo Sanchez (Real Madrid and Mexico) 41 games, 34 goals ***
    Clive Allen (Tottenham Hotspur and England) 39 games, 33 goals ***
    Ian Rush (Liverpool and Wales) 42 games, 30 goals ***
    Marco Van Basten (Ajax and Netherlands) 27 games, 31 goals ***
    Rudi Völler (Werder Bremen and West Germany) 30 games, 22 goals **
    Gary Lineker (Barcelona and England) 37 games, 22 goals **
    Toni Polster (Austria Vienna and Austria) 35 games, 39 goals **
    Paolo Pietro Virdis (AC Milan and Italy) 27 games, 17 goals *
    John Bosman (Ajax and Netherlands) 33 games, 23 goals *
    Ally McCoist (Rangers and Scotland) 44 games, 33 goals *
    Rodion Camataru (Dinamo Bucharest and Romania) 33 games, 44 goals *
    Oleg Protasov (Dnipro and Soviet Union) 23 games, 17 goals in 1986, 30 games, 18 goals in 1987 *
    Paulinho Cascavel (Vitoria Guimares and Brazil) 30 games, 22 goals *
    Gianluca Vialli (Sampdoria and Italy) 28 games, 12 goals *
    Fernando Gomes (Porto and Portugal) 26 games, 21 goals *
    Alessandro Altobelli (Internazionale and Italy) 28 games, 11 goals *
     
    COYS, laudrup_10 and msioux75 repped this.
  13. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    My proposed world class ranking was:

    1. Diego Maradona
    2. Ruud Gullit
    3. Hugo Sanchez
    4. Paulo Futre
    5. Celso
    6. Clive Allen
    7. Uwe Rahn
    8. Franco Baresi
    9. Neville Southall
    10. Ian Rush
    11. Walter Zenga
    12. Marco Van Basten
    13. Lothar Matthaus
    14. Ronald Koeman
    15. Luigi de Agostini
     
  14. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member

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    Nice job comme. I was wondering if going through and doing these year by year ratings of players has changed your opinions on you all time positional rankings?
     
  15. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Yes definitely. I'll be able to conclude more when I get to the modern day and can rank the players a bit more, but certainly people like Tricella, Sansom, Schumacher, Stielike Vierchowod, possibly Falcao would be more highly rated if I was to revisit.

    I certainly intend to revisit those lists at some point when I have completed this task.
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Which indicators are available that point to Maradona as best player of the season as opposed to 1984-85 and 1985-86?
     
  17. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    I can give you my overall thinking in this, and I don't claim it to be cut and dried.

    Basically I'm not sure it is solely about Maradona, it is also about the players around him and their relative performance. So was 1986-7 Maradona's best season? Maybe not, but that is not what I'm trying to assess here.

    Looking at 1984-5

    My rating:
    1.Michel Platini
    2.Diego Maradona
    3.Bernd Schuster
    4.Preben Eljaer-Larsen
    5.Neville Southall


    So the key question is why did Platini finish above Maradona?

    According to dbscalcio

    Maradona 7.03 Platini 6.53

    According to football ratings

    Maradona 7.02 Platini 6.48

    However, Platini won the European Cup, scoring 7 goals in the process (which is not captured in the ratings).

    Platini won the Ballon d'Or (Maradona was inelgible), the World Soccer award (Maradona came third), Onze Mundial (Maradona came third) and was top scorer in Serie A.

    I think there is a strong claim that this was Platini's best club season.

    Looking at 1985-6

    My rating:
    1. Gary Lineker
    2. Ruud Gullit
    3. Diego Maradona
    4. Marco Van Basten
    5. Jorge Valdano
    This season Maradona's ratings fell to 6.50 and 6.72. In terms of individual awards Maradona won them all, but it is almost impossible to separate those wins from the World Cup.

    I set out before the fact that I thought Lineker delivered on all fronts in what was still probably the strongest league (or certainly a major contender for that accolade). The Gullit placing is a difficult one to gauge, but I think you would agree it was a special season, given the flexibility of his role and his offensive contribution.

    So in terms of 1987, Maradona's rating dropped to 6.36 and 6.67, but he did deliver the Scudetto. He won the Onze Mundial award, came second to Gullit in the World Soccer award, but I'm not sure to what extent that was influenced by Gullit's arrival at Milan. Gullit I think was a big favourite of World Soccer readers, they voted him top in 1989 when he barely played through injury.

    The obvious "Lineker" equivalent would be Hugo Sanchez, but I didn't regard La Liga as being quite as strong as the First Division, so that slightly pegged him back.

    That was effectively my thinking.
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
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    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I understand it isn't your focus to assess the best seasons of a player but I found the outcome remarkable. Apparently this was a 'weak' year at the elite player level (in your ranking).

    I think Gullit started to establish a widespread international name in 1985-86. He was invited for an official FIFA XI match and would even appear in the starting line-up. He became tagged as one of the most expensive players in the world. For me, it is certain that 1985-86 was better as 1986-87. Ratings hint at that but he also had some minor injuries. He performed well for the national team though.
    1989 is a strange year. Yes, the readers of your favorite magazine voted him as best and also Onze d'Or had him at 2nd place in 1989. In Ballon d'Or vote he also did quite well (7th place with 16 points). While he only appeared in 15 league games (2 sub) of the 1989 calender year, 5 European games and 2 international games.
    Most likely the outcomes of these votes were influenced by the performances in the European games, against Madrid and Bucharest (he appeared in the 1989 final after he was out for more than a month) and because Holland qualified for 1990WC.
    He was also a popular figure obviously, much more popular as Van Basten for example.


    Gary Lineker moved to Barcelona in the summer of 1986, for a hefty transfer sum. His first season is generally seen as a success (thanks to the hat-trick vs Real Madrid). He only missed three league games and played all European games; all games as starter. Do you know an obvious reason or complicating factor which saw him dropping from 38 to 21 goals? I can understand and comprehend the reasoning about Sanchez 1986-87 vs Lineker 1985-86 (an argument based on strength of league) but this is a complicating factor I feel. Lineker earned a move to Barcelona by his 1985-86 season but was 'outperformed' by Sanchez in 1986-87.

    The other Barcelona seasons are I think not seen as a similar success; in 1987-88 the whole club was in disarray leading to a mutiny and in 1988-89 he fell gradually out of favor.

    1986-87: 41 games (36 completed), 20 goals (0PK)
    1987-88: 36 games (29 completed), 16 goals (4PK)
    1988-89: 26 games (12 completed), 6 goals (0PK)
     
  19. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

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    Club:
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    Country:
    Scotland

    Wasn't the reason for the bolded part due to the fact that Lineker was often asked to play out wide which was both alien to him and also detrimental to his goal scoring stats...?
     
  20. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    How would you have rated the seasons? Would you have agreed?

    Whereabouts? Van Basten to my knowledge was a popular figure as well. I just think that Gullit had that iconic image at the time.

    In terms of why Lineker didn't do so well I don't think he had such a good supporting cast really and he was settling in a new country whereas Sanchez was moving within the same city.

    Sanchez had Michel, Butragueno, Valdano, Martin Vasquez, Gordillo to create chances. Lineker had Carrasco and Mark Hughes.

    Lineker also that season scored four goals in a game against Spain to illustrate his class. Basically his first season was excellent, his second respectable and his third was marred by Cruyff inexplicably playing him as a winger.
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The supporting cast explains why Sanchez scored 34 goals while Lineker scored 20. I think it is a bit too simplistic but it explains some difference.

    It does not explain however the drop from 38 in England to 21 in Spain (that was the question, sorry if that wasn't clear).

    In both cases he did not take PKs (as opposed to, say, a Lampard who has scored over 30% of his goals from the spot in the last 10 years - 125 goals, 39 from the spot).

    I also know Lineker had hepatitis in his second season.
     
  22. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Like I said, he was settling in a new country. I'm not saying that is the reason but it would be contributory.

    I know everyone laughs at Ian Rush at Juventus, and certainly his was a more obvious case of the difficulties of moving abroad, but I'm not sure it would have been easy for Lineker to immediately settle in Spain.

    Sometimes these things do just go like that. Why did Lineker score 10 goals at the World Cup and none in the European Championships?
     
  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    On a very basic level because England, not only Lineker, was bad in 1988 and even more so in 1992 (with a somewhat sub-par squad). Lineker did have assists though.

    The somewhat 'simplistic' aspect is that many other lesser legends scored 25+ goals in a year too like Baltazar, Salinas and others. Barcelona was also the side who had reached the 1986 European Cup final and was usually in contention for the prizes (although they only won the championship in 1985 between the years 1974 and 1991).
    Strangely, Lineker did not score goals in Europe in 1986-87.

    Personally, and that is my own impression, I also think that Sanchez was not the lesser (gifted) player.

    I just asked it because it appeared to me as a qualifier for downgrading Sanchez (and upgrading Lineker) based on the quality of the league.
    It is true though that Spain had a somewhat trigger-happy image. It was for many forwards (like Van Basten) a reason to test themselves in Italy instead of choosing for one of the bigger Spanish clubs.

    Agree that it sometimes takes/took time to fully adapt for a player.
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I had probably rated Maradona as #1 in 1985 and 1986. Probably also in 1986-87 (but I'm not sure, also not sure about 1984-85).

    I think Platini his very best club season was 1983-84.
     
  25. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    I think it is slightly difficult to compare the two. I didn't get to see much of Sanchez in his prime.

    I've said before that Lineker had the best movement of any striker I have seen in my life. I think had Cruyff used him correctly in a team with Michael Laudrup and Ronald Koeman he would have scored an absurd number of goals.

    Basically though as I said when I put Lineker top in 1985-6, I could easily see it another way round. I don't think this was a season in which one player was levels above everyone else.
     
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