The Case for George John

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by 1oohptoyopu, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. 1oohptoyopu

    1oohptoyopu Member

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    “Growing up my dad would always say that he was never the
    smartest or brightest but he worked the hardest and that’s why he did the
    best,” John said. “That work ethic was instilled in me and I pride myself on
    working hard. I don’t take shortcuts.
    “I was never a kid that got called into youth select teams
    and regional coaches never called me in. I’m the kid that worked hard to get
    where I’m at and I'm one of the few still standing.” -George John


    Most here have heard arguments for John's inclusion with the USMNT (-sigh- mainly from me) based on his size,strength, speed, technical proficiency, tactical prowess, leadership and work product. Unfortunately focusing the conversation on those attributes/accomplishments cheapens the debate because, while notable, it ignores THE most important characteristic he possess ...a foundational characteristic we should expect and demand from our national team players....HEART.
    While I wont call out which players I believe lack heart or have shown a capability of forgetting their heart at home at times I will say that playing timid, being error prone, “falling asleep”, and not hustling in (any game much less ) a BIG game is not and should not be par for the course for a USMNT “noob”

    I wanted to give just a few examples of Johns heart on display... namely his MLS Combine, his performances in the MLS Cup run of 2010, and his game vs. Inter Milan. I also felt it prudent, due to rampant misinformation and mischaracterizations about John on this site, to included a brief bio and career summary.


    College:
    1st team NSCAA Far West Regional selection, 1st team All Pac 10 selection,1st team All American Scholar Athlete, Herman Trophy watch list as a CENTRAL MIDFIELDER A viscous tackle resulted in season ended knee injury (surgery) in late October 2008.

    MLS 2009:

    *MLS Draft combine:
    John attended the MLS combine 3months later and volunteered to play CB when nobody else was willing to. Despite playing at maybe 70% and out of position (He was a CM) Ives reported John was the defensive star of the scrimmages outplaying the #1 (predraft) ranked defender Gonzalez throughout combine on his way to being drafted in the 1st round by FC Dallas.Went onto earning starting spot a few games into season. Was then in and out of lineup suffering from hamstring issues related to knee injury.

    MLS 2010:

    *Friendly vs. Inter Milan
    John was the best player on the field that day. numerous interceptions, tackles, 90+% passing, and a goal.


    MLS Cup Playoffs:

    *Vs: RSL
    Returned from late regular season injury to play key 2nd leg game at Rio Tinto aka the fortress. “He (George) had a big game for us,that last 25 minutes, the ball was down on our end of the field maybe 75 percent of the time. There were crosses, second crosses and doubleheaders, a lot of things
    going on."-Schellas Hyndman

    *Vs: LA
    “the night's best defensive performance goes to the Greek, George John. John completely owned Buddle all night, ..John didn't give LA's best scorer any space, but did give him some bruises to take home” -ESPN. He also scored.

    *Vs: CO
    (Simon Borg MLS.COM) It was MLS Cup 2010 in Toronto. FC Dallas central defender
    George John, arguably the best young player on the field in that championship match
    against the Colorado Rapids, was about to get sucked into a bizarre sequence
    that decided the game.
    "It's my fault. It cost us the Cup. I should have done better with it," he said. "I take full responsibility for it."...."I feel like I'm in the twilight zone, in shock," added John. "Kind of a surreal moment. I tried to compose myself as well as I could, get back on the field and help my team out. I got a shot off, but we ended up losing. So …"
    The headline has to be the own goal but John was an absolute beast all game shutting down Casey and Cummings while completing over 90% of his passes. His left footed cracker of an equalizing attempt in the 111st minute earned Pickens #16 on MLS.COM's top 50 MLS Cup moments.

    MLS 2011:

    Played more minutes then Brek Shea (including Breks USMNT games) while FC Dallas played in USOC and CCL. John had 3 goals and one assist on the year in MLS play. Although you could use one hand to count the goals he was responsible for, the teams second half struggles at winning (read scoring) were universally penned on John having post transfer syndrome. This was the popular narrative despite John maintaining an IDENTICAL points total and passing completion percentage (85%) through both halves of the year, while remaining in the top 10 of the newly minted Castrol Index the entire year. He was ranked #2 in soccer Americas best MLS CB's at year end.

    MLS 2012:

    After West Ham loan John quickly earned back his #1 spot after only a couple of games back with FCD (no preseason). While not getting on the score-sheet in league play, John continued his good form maintaining a high passing/low turnover percentage and trademark excellent 1v1 defending but his efforts were tarnished by seemingly endemic late game screw-ups by teammates.

    2013
    ? - After just 1.5 weeks of full training he played great in his first game of the preseason vs Swedish team AIK

    Now of course (with the exception of Inter-Milan) all those performances were against MLS competition...but if he has the HEART, has the SKILL, and has the physical attributes...why wouldn't he succeed?
    IndividualEleven repped this.


  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Because he hasn't been staying healthy consistently enough..........................................

    If he had been, he'd have been capped by now.
  3. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    This guy reminds me of iceberg, maybe it is him. He ONLY posts about George John, constantly defending him, the greatest MLS CB to ever live.

    Either
    1. Mother, Father of G. John
    2. Some family member in Washington state
    3. former college teammate

    Okay, out of the way.

    John has struggled with injuries, his failed medical at Blackburn, West Ham sent him back. Is he good enough? I don't know. The guys main weakness is smaller, quicker players. Seen it in CCL and MLS. Lucky for him that the center defense horrid at the moment.
  4. 1oohptoyopu

    1oohptoyopu Member

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    Terrible thing for a BS poster to rebuke demonstratively false statements when nobody else knows or cares to:
    http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/mls-flavors-of-the-week-2012-edition-mls-rs.1909594/page-21#post-25617633

    LOL Just like you saw John stink up the pitch in that blowout of FCD at RFK as you attest to in the thread linked above? (For those who don't follow the link, John played 0 minutes)

    Saying someone has a main weakness implies that at least with some regularity John gets worked by smaller and quicker players. Now, follow me, considering that CB's are the last line of defense wouldn't it beg to reason that there would be more than a few videos documenting John getting worked for chances on MLS.COM post match highlights by one or more of the many smaller, quicker attacking players in MLS? So where are they?
    //////
    Now of course everyone has parts of their game that could be improved. If you were to ask me what I thought Johns "weakness" was I'd say it is his long (over the top) passing. I dont know if he isnt good at it, its not team strategy, not his nature, or if its some combination of all three but its clear that John doesn't connect nor attempt those passes as frequently as say a Tim Ream. It is something I'd like to see more of personally.
    ////////
    Anyway my intent when I posted this thread was not for us to ponder WHY John hasnt been capped. Clearly thats the result of unfortunate circumstances mainly regarding the timing of injuries. I was hoping we could have a knowledgeable discussion as to why he would or wouldn't be a good fit on the team.


  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

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    John is on my short list. John, Hedges, Berry and Besler, maybe, in the Gold cup would be fun to watch.
    Tom Collingsworth repped this.
  6. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    Gonzalez has had the same problems in the past. Does that make you feel better?
  7. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator Staff Member

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    Argue all you want, the decision has been made and John is not in mix this WC go round.

    Gonzalez and Besler are the final options.
    COMtnGuy repped this.
  8. jond

    jond Member+

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    Uh, there's nothing preventing John from being called into the GC and given a shot. The decision has been made? Lol. JK has made a number of random callups out of the blue and you think it's finalized over a year ahead of time John has no chance this cycle? You're not stating your opinion, you're acting like you were in the room with JK and he factually said John is out for this cycle. That would be nonsense.

    I'd expect more from an MOD.
  9. jond

    jond Member+

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    As an aside, John has more talent at the international level than Omar. Might not get there, but is better suited for international play. Much calmer on the ball, better distribution, has size and is quite physical, a bit quicker than Omar(faster foot speed in recovery) and imo can read the game better.

    Injuries have side tracked his development.
  10. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    Of course it's his opinion. When someone states an opinion, it's an opinion regardless of whether he uses the magic words "in my opinion." He never said he was in a room with JK, just stated what is obviously opinion based on obvious things - seeing John play, JK's complete lack of itnerest so far and, thanks to the poster above, John's completely mediocre resume (complete failure in the Championship). While time may prove one side or the other correct, the opinion that John is out of contention is quite a reasonable one.
    COMtnGuy repped this.
  11. jond

    jond Member+

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    JK has pulled random players into the NT setup repeatedly. No reason to think if John has a good start to the season he's not a candidate for the GC or the WC this cycle. Beckerman has a mediocre resume. So does Alan Gordon. So did Zack Loyd. Tim Ream. Justin Morrow. Orozco-Fiscal. Brad Evans. Just because John tried to go abroad and others didn't take on that challenge or even get interest I doubt will be held against him.

    And no, saying "discuss it all you want the decision has been made" does not come across as opinion. And speaking in absolutes and implying he knows for a fact what will or will not happen isn't any better.
  12. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    This site would be totally tiresome if people really wasted their time on semantic BS such as requiring someone to use the word "opinion" when stating an opinion. It's a strongly-stated opinion, that's all. Disagree, fine, but please stop wasting time with all of this posing.

    As to John getting a call-up, I am not in JK's head nor have I spoke with him (just wasted __ keystrokes to make things clear for you). JK is unpredictable, but in my humble opinion, the fact that John isn't very good and there will be much less time for experiment in the next year make it very likely, in my humble opinion, that John has no to little chance of being a factor in this cycle.
    bmo180 and COMtnGuy repped this.
  13. jond

    jond Member+

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    Did I waste your time? Lol. Then quit butting into conversations which don't include you if you're worried about wasting time.

    And if you knew the English language a bit better, you'd realize there's countless ways to get an opinion across without using the words "in my opinion". However, saying "the decision has been made" and implying everyone else is wasting time with their opinions isn't one of them.

    You type a lot of nonsense for someone who's worried about wasting their time.
  14. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator Staff Member

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    You know who is making his case south of the border? Ventura Alvarado.

    20 year old CB who plays for Club America. Scored tonight vs. Necaxa in their 3-1 win.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventura_Alvarado

    I mean, this sounds like somebody we should start considering now that he's getting time with the first team.
  15. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

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    He will probably get more PT or maybe even compete for a starting spot when Diego Reyes leaves to Europe after the season.
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  16. jond

    jond Member+

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    ImaPuppy repped this.
  17. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    One way to indicate something is an opinion is to say something that is obviously opinion - saying "the decision has been made" does not change the fact that it is an opinion unless the poster states some special relationship with JK or paranormal ability. It's really not that hard, just use that lump on top of your shoulders.

    And George John is simply mediocre.
  18. Lukato

    Lukato Member+

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    I doubt it, America got Rodriguez to replace Diego. They'll probably call back Pimentel next season.
  19. jond

    jond Member+

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    Still struggling with this, aren't you? Still wasting your own time, aren't you? Still don't know the difference between an opinion and an absolute statement, do you? You're struggling. Must be tough for you on a forum. Quit your whining. Someone posted something as if it were fact, and you're getting all upset and invested in defending it. Cry me a river.
  20. BimmerBenz95

    BimmerBenz95 Member+

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    Both are starting CB's so how is he Diego's replacement? We'll see what happens next season.
  21. Martin Fischer

    Martin Fischer Member+

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    OK, you can't be reached.

    George John thankfully has no chance. (Oh my God, is it fact or opinion?????????):eek:
    COMtnGuy repped this.
  22. Lukato

    Lukato Member+

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    because both are the best CB's right now, but as soon as Reyes leaves, Valenzuela will be a starter with Rodriguez and Mosquera and they will get Pimentel back from his loan.
  23. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    I appreciate the passion and exposition. Can you provide any insight on his ankle issues? Seems they are what scuttled his EPL/C'ship oppurtunities. .
  24. 1oohptoyopu

    1oohptoyopu Member

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    Why does every discussion involving this player turn into such a nonsensical mess?

    To say he is not on Klinnsmans radar when he was invited to every Jan camp and was an alternate in a game last year is NONSENSE.

    To say he sucks or is mediocre because West Ham didn't purchase him after the loan or because terms weren't finalized with Blackburn and in the process ignore that player X ,who you rate higher, NEVER even garnered such interest from the EPL is... NONSENSE.

    Ive been on the forums for about four years...im under no illusions about there being a lot of people on this site knowledgeable about FC Dallas much less their #1 CB.
    I was hoping, however, that those haters (who don't let their lack of knowledge stop their quest) would at least be able to articulate what exactly about Johns GAME makes him so unpalatable for Nat team duty. I held up even less hope that someone who IS knowledgeable would be able to articulate (much better than me) why they feel his GAME would help us in our quest for Brazil and beyond.

    Clearly it was a hoop dream.
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Well, he has been called into multiple camps, he's just always had an injury, loan situation, etc. that has prevented him from getting caps.

    George John has this year to prove he's good enough. If he doesn't, the "next generation" will pass him by.

    During FCD's run to MLS Cup in 2010, George John was exceptional. He really hasn't done anything since to force himself into the picture.
    Tom Collingsworth repped this.

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