Review: The case for Kenny Cooper

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by EL MONO MARIO, Oct 20, 2011.

  1. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

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    Cooper has always had bad timing.

    I say, why not give him a shot? He could certainly add something, and aside from Altidore and Gomez we sure could use some forwards with some experience.


  2. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

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    Kenny Cooper aiming for United States return

    http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/4137...-access-kenny-cooper-aiming-for-united-states
  3. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

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    I'm kind of surprised to see the very small sample sizes (and in some cases from years ago) of national team matches by players like Cooper, Wondo, Gomez being used to make cases for or against them. Imo those data are virtually irrelevant. Current club form (including taking account of quality of opposition) is much more important in the cases of these players.
  4. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Yeah, give 'em cap after cap like Conor Casey and Taylor Twellman got.


  5. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

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    C'mon Stan, you're better than that. Just because Henry is a better player, the notion that Cooper can't contribute to Henry playing better for THIS TEAM is silly. Cooper has had a verifiably positive impact on his game. And even Agudelo saw it and commented on how Cooper allows them to play differently (read: more cohesively). Henry hasn't performed at near this level in MLS with his other partners up top. Last year he was only 3 off the lead league, but that only put him at what ... 14 goals for the season. He has 7 in 5 games. I conceded that won't keep up, but I would be willing to bet that if they stayed healthy, Henry would shatter that with Cooper as his partner up top. To argue that Cooper is just a passenger for what is going on with Henry is a bit disingenuous. Henry would have scored like this with RB with anyone if it had nothing to do with who he was paired with. Quite simply, he hasn't. I'm not the biggest Cooper fan, but I don't understand why people here can't give guys credit when they actually achieve.

    Your position on whether Cooper is just "hot" now is noted though. I would never argue that general point. The issue here though is we don't have this oft talked about "world class" striker. So ultimately, we are going to have to take the couple guys we think are just that slight cut above and augment that with guys who are hot at the moment. I don't see a big problem with that ... not at our overall talent level upfront at the moment.
  6. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

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    The problem is, by bringing it up in a Cooper thread, you're implying (whether or not you meant to) an either/or proposition. Whether Cooper makes it fractionally easier for Henry to score is irrelevant to this discussion (being that Henry is not eligible for selection), unless it's offered as an alternative to the thesis that Henry is making it easier for Cooper to score. I think it's fairly obvious that Henry makes it easier for Cooper to score regardless of whether the reverse applies as well, and the original argument was about how comparatively hard it is for Cooper to score.
  7. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

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    Half of Coopers goals have been assisted by Henry.
  8. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

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    Didn't they both experience quite a bit of success in the German lower divisions?

    The difference between those two and Cooper or Jozy is that they can't create for themselves, they weren't technical enough (or quick enough to compensate for that lack of technique) and their finishing was not significantly above average for the types of chances they get.
  9. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Casey and Twells got cap after cap with minimal production. Cooper has produced something in his limited minutes at international level.

    I agree technical skills held Casey and Twellman back.
  10. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    What percentage did Henry assist in Cooper's FC Dallas goals?
  11. Cannons

    Cannons Member

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    There is no case for Cooper... that book was closed years ago. What next... the case for Brian Ching? The case for Josh Wolff?
  12. irish56

    irish56 Member

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    Cooper is six years younger than those guys.
  13. chalaron

    chalaron Member+

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    Cooper is 27, why should that hold him back? He'll only be 29 at the time of the WC. If he keeps producing, he definitely warrants some looks during qualification.
  14. Cannons

    Cannons Member

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    Cause like other BS favs, he's had his shots and never did anything with them. We need forward(s) that can create their own shot and Cooper will never fit that bill. The one's we have now arent great at that either, kenny is even worse. Cooper had a few shots and didnt impress. Klinsmann will never call him... he missed his window.
  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    If the American version of Zlatan Ibrahimovic or Wayne Rooney was sitting in Milwaukee awaiting a callup, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

    However, our forward pool is extremely shallow. People are demanding the inclusion of Terrence Boyd, who for the last two weeks has been a bench player on a German 4th division team.

    Right now guys who actually put the ball in the back of the net in MLS (Cooper, Wondolowski, etc.) have to be in the discussion. There just aren't many other options.

    It would seem right now we've got Altidore, Gomez, and an assortment of question marks. [plus the option of Dempsey at forward of course.]
  16. SeaOtter

    SeaOtter Member

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    He has absolutely produced for the senior team when called.

    Ultimately, you may be proven correct that he never gets another call-up. And, I do believe he has his limitations that may keep him further down the pecking order. But, your assertion that he hasn't produced when called up is way off. You're either forgetful or using some mental filter to come up with that one.
  17. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    I think he works perfect for MLS/Red Bulls.

    He gets good service, and to score in the MLS he has just the right amount of size/agility, dribbling ability, and good shooting.

    Put him up top for the NT, and his skills aren't up to par for hte level of play to score like he does in MLS.

    he'll score and do what he does vs. smaller nations in concacaf, but he wouldn't be able to to do that vs. the Honduras, Mexico, or Costa Rica's.... IMO.
  18. SeaOtter

    SeaOtter Member

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    Personally, I don't believe that anyone is thinking he's the answer vs. Mexico, for instance. But to say that he doesn't belong in the forward conversation is wrong. We don't have proven results from enough strikers to eliminate players who have produced vs. CONCACAF in the past. Kenny has at least proven that he can do that and is currently an in form striker. He's doing what's been asked by JK and has a national team resume that's worthy enough for consideration.

    We're still not at the point of affording ourselves the luxury of writing guys like Cooper off. Its a different story in many other positions, just not that one.
  19. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    Oh I am not writing him off completely.... I just don't think he has enough to contribute at the highest level. He's a B/C Team starting forward.
    deuteronomy repped this.
  20. nobody

    nobody Member+

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    I still see this as a fit problem. I think he becomes a real option if we play 2 forwards, but I don't see him being able to play Altidore's spot because he drifts to the wide spaces and away from the physical areas up top. The other options are the wing positions and when you get him out wide on thew wing, he does lack the pace usually preferred.

    I mean, I think he's probably generically "good enough" to get on the field and acquit himself decently. But he's certainly not good enough that we will change the way we play to make room for him. And I'm not sure where he fits in the current scheme.

    Maybe off the bench if we need a second forward late when pushing for a goal?
  21. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

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    I could understand if he takes Buddle's place in the squad.
  22. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

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    I'll second these thoughts.

    If the Nat's played a must-win game this week, I'd have Altidore and Dempsey start, with Gomez and either Cooper or Buddle on the bench. Possibly all 3, depending on how big the roster is. Cooper is in the mix as a backup.
  23. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

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  24. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Curious collection of hand waving, projectionism, and logical fallacies on the player.

    The pool of strikers who have a good scoring record at international level are Gomez, Buddle, and Cooper. There is no imaginary pool of strikers killing it in top European leagues, and tickling the twine for the US.

    Altidore has been adequate and looks to have improved at club level. He's not exactly a 3 lungs player at any level, so the team will certainly need additional forwards for the upcoming set of games.

    And as the data from link of the previous poster shows Cooper is pretty effecient from inside the area.
  25. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

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    Cooper does not have a "good" scoring record. It's not pitiful but don't exaggerate.

    I have seen Buddle and Gomez play against decent competition and not look out of their depth. I have not seen Cooper against play against a decent side yet. I'll withhold appraisal until then. On merit he deserves to take Buddle's(who apparently lost out to Boyd in camp) place who hasn't found his form yet(that could change). That's all.

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