Review: The case for Kenny Cooper

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by EL MONO MARIO, Oct 20, 2011.

  1. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    It's not aesthetic nonsense though. It's about that when you hit the higher levels, you can't afford to have forwards who are useless in build-up play. They have to have some sort of contribution aside from just being good finishers, especially if their finishing is off, which Cooper's has been at times. Cue the Emile Heskey comparisons.


  2. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    ^^^Agree.

    He'll be good to use against lower level competition, but his lack of pace and his display vs. DCU didn't help his case...
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    He of the >60 caps for England?

    If Cooper is even a poor man's Emile Hesky, that's good enough to be in the USMNT forward pool.
  4. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Sorry. That was a part of a post I was going to make comparing Ching to Cooper, and then to Emile Heskey, but I thought better of it. Ching and Heskey are similar in that their goal-scoring records for their clubs/countries aren't necessarily prolific, but can provide valuable functions outside of scoring goals themselves.


  5. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

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    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/04/20/armchair-analyst-cooper-back-us-player-pool

    How in the world is that evidence that a player needs service to contribute?

    I'd also like to know the definition of "defender on his back". Does that mean receive a ball under pressure, turn and shoot? Those goals seem rare in general.


    I agree that Kenny is, unless he really takes a leap to the next level, not as versatile as Jozy. He's going to need another forward playing in the hole or along side him. I disagree that he's service dependent because of his outside shooting, combination, and dribbling skills, he's not Taylor Twellman.
  6. chalaron

    chalaron Member+

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    4 goals in 10 caps, not all of them starts is respectable at the international level. It's much better than some other forwards we trot out consistently.
  7. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    If Cooper makes the squad he won't play, he might not even make the 18. A lot of knee jerk and over analysis for a guy who needs to have a strike partner. So far, except for the Slovenia match last year, Klinsmann has only played 1 forward up top.

    Yes it's a position of need, but this is like discussing who gets to warm the bench.
  8. chalaron

    chalaron Member+

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    Isn't having the best players on your bench also extremely important? It makes training better, it ensures there isn't a massive drop off if a starter gets hurt, it pushes the starters to work harder so they don't lose their spot, etc. Yeah we're arguing about a bench spot, but that doesn't make it any less vital.

    Look at some of the tournaments we went to the past 4 years where we were thin at a position. One injury forced lineup changes or inserting someone into the lineup (Johnny B) who had no business being there and our overall play suffered because of it.
  9. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    Not sure it pushes anyone since he's not in the same breath as Jozy or Gomez. His competition will be someone like Buddle, Wondo, since all play in MLS.

    If we have to start Cooper in a game I fear for the result.
  10. morange92

    morange92 Member

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    depends on the game and the context tbh, if we already secured a spot in the hexagonal and are playing a throwaway game against a scrub team i wouldn't have much fear... plus he's not that bad, at worst case scenario he's a non-factor and we've had plenty of non-factors start for us in important games...*cough* robbie findley *cough*
  11. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

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    http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/story/_/id/7846890/mls-kris-boyd-journey-mls

  12. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

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    He also said last year his preferred position was on the wing. I have not seen him much this year. I did not see him before last year. But his play last year was awful; some of the softest play I have ever seen from a big forward. His opportunities had to be created for him, and passing was always a last option for him, so he rarely created opportunities for others.

    If he has not improved in a radical fashion, he has no business on the US Team.
  13. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

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    He had his tail tucked firmly between his legs against DC, but prior to that had been excellent. The word is that Henry very pointedly told him what's what - and that everyone in the RBNY locker room is terrified of Titi.

    But yeah, he was excruciatingly soft last year. Backe even said so. Hopefully he's had a late-in-the-day change of heart.
  14. morange92

    morange92 Member

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    i've seen him play beyond that game, he's done extremely well. However i dunno if its because he and thierry henry complement each other well or if he has grown as a player due to being around henry. I wouldn't mind bringing him for a callup for one of these friendlies and see what he has to offer at this point in time. I'm not saying we should call him up as there are other people arguably more deserving, but i wouldn't be against it either
  15. chalaron

    chalaron Member+

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    I guess with Henry injured we'll get to see if Cooper's play this year is good form or a product of playing with Henry.
  16. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    Kris Boyd: 3 goals and 0 assists in 701 minutes. Portland 2 wins 5 losses 1 tie.

    Kenny Cooper: 7 goals and 1 assists in 612 minutes.
    New York with Cooper starting New York 4 wins 1 loss 1 tie.
    New York without Cooper starting: 2 losses

    Spencer the old Scottish striker was overdoing it a bit as well. Live and learn.

    MLS Rank in goals scored: New York 1. Portland 10.
  17. IndividualEleven

    IndividualEleven Member+

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    He scored plenty of goals before last year, if you're writing of Kenny Cooper. He was coming off an injury laden stint overseas so common sense would dictate he play wouldn't be the hardest guy out there.
  18. SeaOtter

    SeaOtter Member

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    Well, it'd be silly to think that Cooper's goals don't have something to do with Henry's presence. His goals or lack of them will also be impacted by the presence of Henry's replacement over the next four weeks.

    Cooper is playing well. He's making enough of his opportunities to score and putting himself in position to score. It's enough to deserve consideration - plain and simple.
  19. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    I agree. I don't have high hopes, but I think he's deserving of a shot.
  20. Prime Time

    Prime Time Member

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    Yeah... light, light consideration and nothing more.
  21. SeaOtter

    SeaOtter Member

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    He deserves as much consideration as any forward in MLS.

    Of course, its not up to me or you. It all starts with JK's thinking with regard to his "fit" into the team. If he "fits", then it is his form relative to the other "fitting" candidates that'll dictate consideration.
  22. chalaron

    chalaron Member+

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    Oh I certainly think Henry helps him, and agree it would be silly to think otherwise. I guess I was talking to the people who've implied Henry is the only reason he's scoring based off his one bad season last year, while failing to consider all the other productive seasons he's had.
  23. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

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    The rebuttal was that he has not, in fact, demonstrated an excellent scoring record, either for country or any club level higher than MLS. And you've stopped even arguing the point other than just to repeat the assertion.

    You made an accusation. The line of questioning is yours, counselor.

    If the second sentence point here were true, you'd never have bothered making the first, as it would be irrelevant to this case. And I'm sure you know it.
  24. chalaron

    chalaron Member+

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    how is 4 goals in 10 appearances, most of them sub minutes not great? That's a 40% scoring rate.
    Rooney is at 38% with England,
    Messi: 32% for Arg,
    Jozy: 28%,
    Fernando Torres: 30% for Spain.

    Cooper has 4 goals in 335 total minutes of game time.That works out to basically a goal every 90 minutes.

    I clearly don't think Cooper is at the level of any of these forwards, even Jozy, and the sample size is too small to gain much info. However, the fact remains that he does have a good strike rate for the US despite many peoples protestations.
  25. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

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    Partially, you've answered your own question--the debate was about whether anything in particular has been proven (I'm not trying to say he has demonstrated a poor scoring record, but that excellence has not been demonstrated), and the point is it hasn't, but we've gone in circles because a handful of people will argue by assertion that it has.

    The other part, to amplify that, is that he's never scored against high-level opposition, club or country.

    Chris Wondolowski once scored a goal in a CCL game against Pachuca for Houston. Around 2007, I think it was. That one goal is certainly no basis for a NT callup, but as a measuring stick, that Pachuca team (something of a LMF dynasty at the time) was a better squad than any Cooper has ever scored against to my knowledge, club or country, in a 9 year career.

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