The Daily Show/Colbert Report IV

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by heybeerman, Aug 1, 2008.

  1. nicephoras

    nicephoras BigSoccer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Location:
    New York
    Basically it just sounds like you don't find him funny. Which is a personal choice and one I can't and won't refute - we all have different tastes.* Plenty of people have found him funny and insightful, however, including some pretty liberal sites like Vox. His TDS appearances have been a bit unbalanced so far, but they were certainly NOT punching down, they were almost all entirely about making fun of American ignorance about the outside world.

    Now, do some of his tweets come off as a somewhat frat boyish? Sure - but the guy is 31, and some of these tweets are, I believe, up to 4 years old. If a 27 year old stand up wasn't making a few fat girls+alcohol jokes, I'd be actively surprised, especially considering he's actually a relative newcomer to comedy - he got his start on South African soaps, did a whole bunch of other entertainment work and didn't turn full time to stand up comedy until about 8 years ago, which in comedy terms is not especially long. So it's not surprising that you're going to get some "broey" tweets from a 28 year old guy who's been doing comedy for a few years.

    This may come off as a full throated defense of his taking over the Daily Show - which it's not meant to be. He wouldn't have been on my short list, to be honest, even if I have found his stand up funny. (His bit about wanting to be black, since he's not in SA, then arriving in the US thinking he's black only to be mistaken for Mexican/Puerto Rican is very funny.) But, given the demands of the show, the pressure of replacing Stewart and the general lack of interest of the many people whom we'd prefer to do it, the options narrowed to younger comics with a lot of upside (that were also cheap). So I'm willing to give him a shot, and since I've seen most of his stand up, which has almost nothing to do with the types of jokes we're discussing here, I think he has a chance. If his show turns out to be more similar to these tweets (which I consider very unlikely), I'll stop watching very fast, since that type of humor isn't amusing to me on a consistent basis at all. But I'm also not remotely willing to judge him based on about 10 tweets people have dredged up out of literally over 8,000.

    I've found his stand up funny and I'll see how he does on his own merits as host of TDS. That he had a few jokes that clunked (and yes, some were punching down), is only relevant if it broadly reflected his general style of humor, which based on the rest of his work, especially not on twitter, it clearly doesn't.**


    *Other than the Chappelle Show. Which is objectively funny.***

    **It should also be added that Twitter is a very bad platform for meaningful comedy anyway, since it's limited to so few characters and makes context very, very difficult. The Colbert incident this past year was a great example - what was CLEARLY a bit to make fun of Daniel Snyder by creating an obviously terrible stereotype that he had used repeatedly before turned into a firestorm because of one twitter activist. That it got her a guest column in Time is frankly a sign that more than anything else, Twitter is a great place for faux-outrage than truly meaningful comedy.

    ***Although people tend to forget that Chappelle has had some bits that were/are......well......not awesome, like the bit he continues to do (I saw him a few months back) about gay rape.
     
    superdave and Timon19 repped this.


  2. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Country:
    United States
    Punching is just a metaphor, get over it.

    I recall liking Jon Stewart a great deal before TDS and thinking he was very funny.

    But remember: TDS wasn't TDS before Jon Stewart. There were no qualifying grounds except being funnier than Craig Kilborn, a low bar which Stewart was clearly ready to sail right over. Now the show has grown into something amazing, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that they won't hand over the reigns to just anybody, in the hopes that he'll grow into someone funny and insightful. Honestly, you could pick almost anyone who's been a correspondent for TDS and you've have a better candidate. I could name 10 comedians I know personally IRL who would be great.

    I'm honestly mystified by this choice.
     
  3. nicephoras

    nicephoras BigSoccer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Location:
    New York
    Stewart's comedy was always on the more intellectual side, though given that he is good friends with comics like Denis Leary, it's pretty certain some of his act at one point must have involved some crude material that wasn't always "punching up".
     
  4. nicephoras

    nicephoras BigSoccer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Location:
    New York
    Yeah, because you don't find him funny, it's a PERSONAL choice.* I would have been equally mystified by your proposed choice of Samantha Bee who has never been funny. But when people say that, they mean funny to THEM. You like Samantha Bee's comedy, which I just do not remotely get.

    *Your comment about knowing 10 stand-ups personally that are funnier is interestingly personal and takes us back to the odd discussion on this forum ages ago about your view that you were more attractive than Scarlett Johanssen face wise. Which is entirely possible, but to put it into @Naughtius Maximus terms, it's all subjective, 'innit?
     
    Timon19 repped this.


  5. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Location:
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    I think the core of his problem is that he is simply not very funny.

    I mean, Bill Hicks could get away with jokes about Drew Barrymore's abortion because he was almost a force of nature instead of a mere comedian. That's why the many comparisons to "edgy" comedians of the past fall flat for me. They were not funny because they strayed into non-PC material, they were funny because said material and/or their delivery was great.

    Patton Oswalt retweeted someone who brought Richard Mother-********ing Pryor into this discussion.

    [​IMG]

    The issue is not if the guy has the right to make those jokes. It's just that we have the right to think they are crap and voice this opinion. I've seen very few people - if any - make the argument that he did not have the right to send out those tweets. What I have seen a lot of is people who rightly point out they aren't great jokes and would be instantly forgettable if not for the targets they were aimed at.
     
    Matrim55 and Demosthenes repped this.
  6. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Location:
    Akron, OH
    Decent points, but I'm still not convinced Demo isn't imagining a Jon Stewart that did not exist prior to taking over TDS and is more trying to talk herself into feeling good about opposing this guy.

    I don't particularly care, as TDS strikes me as occasionally entertaining, but mostly so pleased with its own rightthinkfulness that it really just appears to be smelling its own farts most of the time.

    On another note, for my own sanity, I'm getting the ******** out of this thread. The SJW buzzspeak is absolutely driving me crazy. It's a generalized hatred to and aversion to corporate-y language, and it makes me stabby.
     
  7. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Location:
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    Having said all that, he could still turn out to be a decent TDS host. Even though I respect Stewart, I suspect it's now a well-oiled machine that is slightly more dependent on the quality of the writing staff than the personality of its host.
     
  8. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Country:
    United States
    Have you been listening to me? My problem with his comedy isn't the punching down thing. It's that his humor is weak and unfunny and not particularly insightful.

    This person is going to satirize American politics, culture and media, when he doesn't seem to know much about any of them.

    He has a perspective, but I don't need someone who makes fun of African-Americans for wanting to be connected to Africa satirizing race relations in America.

    See, no. That bit wasn't particularly funny at all. I mean, putting aside that he doesn't know or care about the difference between Mexicans and Puerto Ricans, the bit had no punch line. It had no insight. "My skin is beige so people mistake me for Hispanic" is not a joke in itself.

    I don't know how to make it clearer that that's not the only thing I'm judging him on. I've been watching his standup and his TV appearances, and they leave me largely unamused. I've been scouring his Twitter feed, and I've not found one single gem.

    You couldn't be more wrong about this. Many comedians -- in fact, most who are decent at their jobs -- use Twitter very well. Stand-ups and comedy writers have launched their careers with Twitter. There are whole accounts dedicated to clever political comedy. Speaking of Colbert, his feed is full of hilarious, insightful tweets.
     
  9. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Country:
    United States
    lol I didn't say I'm more attractive than Scarlett Johanssen, I said I have prettier facial features and I maintain that I do (did? I'm older now). Although her DSL's are extremely impressive I find her nose funny looking and the rest of her face quite ordinary.
     
  10. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Location:
    Akron, OH
    Patton Oswalt's tweet that is more relevant here:
    "Jokes should always entertain. EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HEARS THEM."
     
  11. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Location:
    Akron, OH
    All he needs are decent writers. Some people seem to be acting as if Stewart was the whole show.
     
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 1999
    Location:
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    Reins, not reigns. @American Brummie

    Oh well, at least you didn't write rains.

    [​IMG]
    ???

    Single Jewish Women?
    And I don't want people to think my post was anti-Noah. I was trying to point out why the specific nature of those specific jokes isn't a great sign.

    PS...digging around for those dozen or so tweets from several years ago is an example of variety of "nutpicking."
     
    American Brummie repped this.
  13. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Country:
    United States
    Okay, no. That actually is not relevant at all. It's a refusal to talk about the situation. And I ********ing hate that.

    People are criticizing some jokes. Instead of engaging the critics and discussing the jokes -- whether they're funny, whether they're harmful or problematic, what point or insight they might be making -- Oswald is attacking people's very right to criticize the jokes.

    "Everybody's offended by something" really means, "I'm not personally offended by this particular thing and I don't want to hear about why you are." What's so hard about having a conversation?

    I really hate this attitude that all criticism must be immediately dismissed because comedy is a delicate little flower and if we talk about it we'll ruin everything.
     
    DynamoEAR and Matrim55 repped this.
  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 1999
    Location:
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    OK, I'm lost again. What?

    Also, pics or it didn't happen. ;)

    PS...Patton Oswalt would have been an extreeeeemely interesting choice.
     
  15. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Country:
    United States
    Whoops. Thanks for the correction.
     
  16. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Country:
    United States
    dick sucking lips
     
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras BigSoccer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Location:
    New York
    Yeah, and we disagree there. Because it's your personal opinion. Have you been listening to me?

    Bully for you! You certainly don't have to watch. The TDS is a for profit television program run on a channel owned by a giant media conglomerate. He hasn't been appointed the Poet Laureate.

    Yeah, that wasn't the joke at all. The joke is about the shifting definitions of race - because he wanted to be black, thought it was cool, was told by an American that in the US he'd be considered black only to get here and immediately be called Hispanic. The concept of the joke is to satirize how fluid and arbitrary racial divides are despite deeply held beliefs about it. The punchline is not "I look like a Mexican here, har har".

    See below for the answer to this point, as I'm responding slightly out of sequence.

    Colbert's twitter feet is anodyne and boring, one of the reasons I've unfollowed him despite enjoying his show more than TDS by far. It's not remotely hilarious or insightful.

    The interesting thing about these posts is that I haven't had to make points from a false premise - I genuinely believe everything I've written to be true. Which is basically why, at the end of the day, what this entire discussion boils down to is, YOU DON'T FIND TREVOR NOAH FUNNY. OK, cool. You don't have to, and you don't have to watch TDS, and it sounds like you'll stop. He may, in fact, turn out to be a crappy host. But that's a purely subjective opinion, since plenty of people do seem to find him funny - he's not a random guy that showed up on open mike night and was told he'd be hosting TDS a week later. Clearly if he's selling out shows world-wide someone must think he's funny.

    This goes back to our disagreement about Samantha Bee. I'd have absolutely stopped watching TDS if she was the host because I find her absolutely unfunny. But that's because those are my comedic preference. When you mooted her gig, I believe I dismissed the idea in literally 4 words. You've now taken pages to effectively write that you don't find Trevor Noah funny. We hear you. It's just not an objective view - it's your personal style of comedy.
     
    Timon19 repped this.
  18. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    Actually this is a bit that you do see in Latino comedy.

    Also this type.

    Minute 2.

     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
    Dr. Wankler repped this.
  19. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Location:
    Akron, OH
    Oh, stop. He's not ATTACKING anything. He might be "avoiding discussion", but "attacking"? Where?
     
  20. nicephoras

    nicephoras BigSoccer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Location:
    New York
    The funny thing is, I actually don't find her facial features all that attractive either. But you do understand the utterly, completely and totally subjective nature of that statement, right? That's my point?

    I also find your parenthetical hilarious - has Scarlett Johanssen stopped aging? :D
     
  21. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Location:
    Sunnyvale
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    This was my response to my wife (who wasn't real happy with the selection). To me, it comes down to the quality of the writing and his ability to deliver. In very limited segments, his delivery has been good and well written.

    However, when it comes to interviewing, this will be a completely different story. Can he think on his feet? Does he have the intelligence to take a conversation one way or another?
     
    Belgian guy repped this.
  22. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    Joined:
    May 2, 2001
    Location:
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Not that there's anything wrong with that...
     
  23. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Location:
    Akron, OH
    Isn't that what the editors are for?
     
  24. nicephoras

    nicephoras BigSoccer Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Location:
    New York
    That's one I haven't heard before.

    Besides, we all know it's about the enthusiasm :)

    (Was that punching down? ;))
     
  25. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Location:
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    It can also work as a prison joke.
     

Share This Page