The Defense

Discussion in 'Juventus' started by Daei_10, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

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    lets discuss the defense here...i believe it deserves its own thread, we've had 32 games at hand so its a great sample to analyze it for next year.


    We have the best in serie A right now, but is it good enough for CL next year?

    Can this defense as it is handle CL?

    Who would you get rid of and who would you add? and why?

    MOST IMPORTANTLY we have not really been challenged that badly this year. Aside from a few games, and not even the full game, maybe bits and pieces of it...we have enjoyed possession and pressing on our opponents. Even the Milan games, we have had control. So the question is...what do we do under pressure against better european sides???




    This is a tough call for me cuz i do like all our defenders in a way. We are not the best defense but all of them at some point done their job greatly. Even Bonucci. Surely he makes mistakes but he does alot of good too.

    What I dont like is how we have been leaking goals in the box...whether set pieces or counters. Our defense is a bit slow at times


  2. gummy-bear83

    gummy-bear83 Member

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    I don't know what to add to your considerations...great performance of Juve's defense this season but they haven't faced world-class strikers (except for Ibra and few others). There's a big question mark over Bonucci: is he Ch. Legue material? Only time will tell.
  3. DaveyGorgeous

    DaveyGorgeous Member

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    We have the best defense not only in Serie A, but in all of Europe. I would definitely say we are ready for the Champions League. But, I would expect the amount of goals conceded to increase if we're playing tougher teams like the Spanish giants, Manchester twins, Bayern, etc.

    I'm not as worried about Bonucci. Yes, he has been probably the weakest of our back-line but you seem him growing in confidence and making less mistakes. IMO, as he is only 24, he will continue to improve.

    I'm actually more worried about Barzagli. He's played marvelous this season. I might even say he's played above what he's capable. Is this something which will continue or has it been just a good year for him?
  4. OldLady

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    Our defense is good enough for CL,we should improve our attacking game .
    Look at Real Madrid,Bayern Munich,Manchester Utd. etc they have average defenders and concede goals in every match,but they have really good wingers/strikers who rarely miss.


  5. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

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    thats kind of misleading statement...we havent played anywhere outside italy, so we dont know how we really are in europe yet
  6. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

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    so my question to those who already posted and those who havent is.....would you change anything? if so, who and why?
  7. DaveyGorgeous

    DaveyGorgeous Member

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    No, it takes into account only league games. No team in Europe has conceded less goals in league games than Juventus.
  8. DaveyGorgeous

    DaveyGorgeous Member

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    De Ceglie has played pretty good this season but he's still not a great player. IMO, he could be upgraded.

    Also, if someone like Hummels or Subotic becomes available, I think you have to pounce as Barzagli won't play like this forever and these guys can on the Juve backline for a decade.
  9. Northern Juventino

    Northern Juventino Member

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    I'd get another CB personally. If it was a perfect world I'd get Hummells and not get rid of anyone. That would give sure depth at the CB position with Hummels/Giorgio/Barz/Bonnucci and Caceres.

    I'd add another LB/RB. Swiss Nazi/PDC/Caceres and Giorgio are nice but if the club can swing a LB with world class potential I'd go for it.

    I'm sure I'm playing Captain Obvious here but I really don't know what more to say about it.
  10. DaveyGorgeous

    DaveyGorgeous Member

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    I think if someone like Hummels came in, you'd have to sell Barzagli or Bonucci. Those are four international players (Chiellini, Barzagli, Bonucci, and Hummels) and the 4th CB would get very little playing time, even with the CL. I just don't see one of these guys staying with us to play something like 8 games a season.

    Then again, ManU have Vidic, Ferdinand, Smalling and Jones as their center backs but Vidic and Ferdinand have histories of injury and Smalling is still young and won't demand a regular starting spot. He's being groomed to take over for Ferdinand. I don't know, maybe it can be done with some schmoozing. It also depends if we plan on using the three-man backline formation a lot next season. If so, then the need for an additional CB becomes greater.
  11. usnroach

    usnroach Member

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    imho the only pressing area in defense is lb. DC is doing quite well but i'm a little worried against class wingers. so upgrading there would be nice. cb isn't a huge priority to me. we should just bring sorenson back, and add a class lb. and the rest rwf and a new cf. in precedence to me it would be rwf, lb, cf, lf, cm, cb. we should really start using some of our "promising" youth.
  12. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

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    what happened to caceres as LB? i thought that was the main reason we bought him for but he's been either CB, RB or winger
  13. Falc

    Falc Member+

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    I am going to speak up and if people are offended, so be it. You guys should know by now that I will speak my mind.

    This thread is silly. I wonder if some of you have paid any attention to the season. Conte has molded this team into a collective. The team plays defense. The team attacks. The defense is not based on 3 or 4 that play in the back nor is our attack solely relied upon those listed as strikers. We play as a team.

    Our team has done well defensively for a few reasons. First, everyone is expected to defend, to pressure the opponent. This is the same whether you are pegged as an attacker, midfielder or striker. Not only do our players pressure the ball, they close the passing lanes. It is an effort by everyone, not just a few.

    Another components of our defensive play is our dominance of possession. Again, this is an entire team effort. When we have the ball in the back, it is expected to play it short. Even Buffon has gotten into the act. If we possess, it means less chances for the other side.

    The final part of our defensive success has been fitness. We run constantly, which figures into our pressing and possession. Players are in position, leaving few gaps in the field. Little space is given to the opponent.

    Calling for world class players is ridiculous. First, it is such a small group and defenders are rarely part of it. We need to add a center back and a left back. What is needed of those players are the ability to be tough when defending, to mark their men and not watch the ball, to be composed when in possession and understand the system that Conte has put into place, including the ability to switch systems. I don't give a f^@& if that player is world class or not. Players will get that world class label playing for Juve, as it use to be in the old days.

    For those worried about carrying four center backs, go back to last month when we had Chiellini and Barzagli out. We have been fortunate with injuries this season. Playing twice a week, we may not have that fortune. In fact, we probably should have a fifth center back.

    I don't know where some of you got this notion about Caceres playing left back. He may have covered the position but it is not his role and not the reason we acquired him. In fact, I think the only place where I have read about Caceres as a left back is on this forum.
    juventino13 repped this.
  14. DaveyGorgeous

    DaveyGorgeous Member

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    While the defenders nowadays are not what they used to, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to go for some of the best defenders available, no?

    But, Falc no one is saying not to have a 4th or 5th CB. Rather, people (or maybe just me) are saying not to go out and try to sign a top CB and expect Bonucci and Barzagli to stay as they may begin to become disgruntled for only getting playing time in cup matches or in case of injury. Said players expect to play regularly and often, not just a handful of matches a year. Even with CL football, CBs are typically the position (besides the GK) which gets rotated the least. For instance in 2005-06, our CBS were Cannavaro, Thuram, Chiellini and Kovac. Our 5th CB, I think Criscito at the time, didn’t play a single match. Four 4 CBs were enough, especially considering someone like Kovac did not expect to get a lot of playing time and Chiellini was still a “youngster.”

    Well, at the time Caceres was brought in, De Ceglie was out for stretches of time and Chiellini was forced to play LB often. During the first half of the season, Lichtsteiner and Pepe played spectacularly as RB and RWM, respectively. So, many thought he was coming in as a utility player, able to play anywhere along the backline. And, because at the time RB was not a weakpoint, but LB was, thinking that he would get minutes at LB wasn’t a bad assumption to make.
  15. Falc

    Falc Member+

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    What I want to see is Juve pick up players that fit into Conte's system. Whether they have some recognizable name, I don't care. If we go through this forum, so many of our players who we praise at the moment were chumps not too long ago. Barzagli is an example. Heck, even Del Piero who some claimed was too old, too slow, past it. Now there are some here clamoring that he be signed next season. If we picked up Nesta for depth, would it be so bad? Or instead a player with little fanfare but fits in with what Conte expects? There are 11 players that can take the pitch. Not all of them have to be world class because on this team, you are expected to do your part. I am not sure if Cristian Ronaldo would be successful on this team. So instead of throwing out a bunch of fancy names, I hope management is actually looking at players who not only can succeed in this system but make the team better.

    When Caceres was brought in, some of you were fantasizing that he would take De Ceglie's spot. I don't recall Conte, Marotta or anyone else in the front office making that analysis. Caceres was brought in primarily to play on the right flank and as an extra among the central defenders. Defensively, he needs a lot of work and I would not use him in a 3-back formation. But he has been a good addition to our side and is definitely a Juventino. I agreed with the decision not to buy him last time out as his club wanted too much money. It did not mean that I disliked the player.
  16. Falc

    Falc Member+

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    Next season, we will be competing on two fronts. I hope Conte rotates his players. He needs to if he expects to play at the same pace he has done this season. Carrying 9 defenders should be expected (2-5-2).
  17. scirea6

    scirea6 Member+

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    I have to spread some reputation around, but I agree with every word of this.

    Also, this thread should be called "The Midfield and Defense", since one of, if not the major reason for our outstanding defensive record is how well our midfield has done, both with and without the ball, all season.
  18. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

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    :rolleyes:

    typical of you to say such thing......this thread is here to discuss exactly what you have wrote an essay on...THE DEFENSE....whether people are right or wrong is to be discussed. I threw some of the typical statements out there so that we can discuss them. If u think everything is silly and people are being dramatic then maybe a DISCUSSION forum isn't a place for you.

    All we want is people's opinions and feedback, theres no right or wrong cuz none of us know until we actually get there. Everything else is speculation.
  19. 1251alex

    1251alex Member

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    LOL. this thread is going to blow up in the summer when Marotta doesnt bring in every world class defender we are linked with. :D

    and if De Ceglie keeps improving like he has, we wont need a LB in the summer. We defend as a team. LW tracks back and so does the LCM to help out. De Ceglie has been really good this season.
  20. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

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    the thing is defenders can be flawless till they make 1-2 dumb mistakes and everyone wants their head

    de celige had good game before his injury last year too and everyone loved him...but when he had those bad games, everyone wanted a new player
  21. Falc

    Falc Member+

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    Well, if I am reading in between the lines correctly and you are telling me that I have put the discussion in the right direction, I guess I will take that as a compliment. ;)

    When people are trying to nit pick the roster, make outrageous claims that Serie A is weak (as if the other leagues have 10 teams contending for the title, each one is down to the top two), that this player or that is not world class, that the defense is just the defenders, then yes, it is silly. This is not fantasy league where you insert some stupid stats and pick up points. I have been playing for over 40 years, I continue to play, I coach, I referee, I know that the dynamics of a team is more than grabbing the nome du jour.

    Now, do you want to discuss DEFENSE, then read my post above. I don't know if I can put it in better black & white. Defense is not down to just 3 or 4 defenders and the goalkeeper. Most of the times, the break down is further up field and hopefully that last line can make the stop. But Juve does not have the best defense in Serie A because of its defenders. While they have done their job, it has been a team effort.
  22. 1251alex

    1251alex Member

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    who cares what everyone wants? As long as Conte deems a player worthy im fine with it. Mistakes happen. Look at the match threads. Everyone bashes a player for missing a chance then that same player scores and everyone loves him all of a sudden. Thats why haters of certain players make me LOL.
  23. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

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    ya exactly what i wanted....i was just saying why u said the THREAD is silly. Its fine to voice your opinion.


    for the record, if u read my posts im not a fan of names and just plugging them in either. ive seen many hyped players end up being nothin and i know how if a team is doing good overall...people seem to think their players are super stars but that might not translate into another team. Look at madrid, chelsea, man city for perfect example...they spend so much to win championships and they still dont. LOL



    but i do think serie A is weak...we have not had any dangerous games or opponents. The few times we've been pressured by opponents we have been sort of shaky and thats what concerns me about CL next year. I made this thread cuz i dont know what the solution is...i dont think just buying a famous name will fix it...thats why i made the thread to get opinions. But im eager to see what we can do against other euro sides....hopefully this summer we get some good friendlies....perhaps in US against a top EPL/LA liga side....or that one friendly cup game barcelona has every summer...they played napoli last year
  24. DaveyGorgeous

    DaveyGorgeous Member

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    While I agree with what others have said that we have to get players that will be good for the system, why can't we discuss players that we think will be good for the system?

    Falc, I believe, said we'll need 9 defenders for next year. And, I agree with CL football.

    LB: De Ceglie
    CB: Chiellini, Barzagli, Bonucci
    RB: Lichtsteiner, Caceres

    Right now, we've been doing really with this group because of two reasons: (1) we have been fortunate to avoid injury in our defense; and (2) guys like Caceres and Chiellini are versatile - Chiellini is our 2nd/3rd choice LB while Caceres can play anywhere along the backline.

    But, reinforcements will be needed. I do think we need a new LB. De Ceglie has worked well in the system but as others have mentioned, he has had the support of the team and our possession football. If you lineup a talented right winger in opposition of him, I think he may not be as steady. So, who are some good LBs that would fit into Conte's system? Considering that Conte also employs the 3-man-backline system, I still say someone like Santon would fit in well with our mentality. I think Conte can groom him into a beast. Plus, he was a midfielder to start out so I think he could adapt well to the outside wide midfield roles in the 3-5-2 as well. He has always struck me as being mentally strong, as well as physically, and this is something for which he continues to be hailed at Newcaste.

    Also, the more I thought about it, the more I think a case can be made for bringing in another centre back. Conte likes using three of them often enough that having four solid ones is adequate insurance should we befall to long injury layoffs and the like. From what I've seen of Hummels and Subotic in Germany, I don't see why they wouldn't fit into Conte's system either.
  25. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

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    i always liked santon...hows he doin at newcastle?

    i see he's had 22 appearances

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