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The fight against modern football 3

Discussion in 'Business and Media' started by Numquam Moribimur, Apr 14, 2012.

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  1. guignol

    guignol Moderator Staff Member

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    the tennis ball protest was likely no more disruptive than delaying a match for a media presentation most of the people in the stands would as soon be boined in oil as watch. the real disrespect was towards these fans.

    season ticket holders or not, the "don't buy a ticket" argument is ludicrous. don't buy a ticket to see the club you love (but we don't give a toss about), just stay at home and watch us shove MORE realbarça™ down your throats? because that's the message the liga was sending to these fans.
     


  2. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    There are other ways to protest. Don't show up! As I have said in the past, hit them in the pocketbook (it works in America). That type of disruption ( throwing tennis balls on a pitch) is exactly on the level of a five year old.

    What if someone would get hit in the eye with a tennis ball? Could do serious damage. Is that worth it?

    Season ticket holders still have a choice. One, to buy tickets. Two, to show up or not. I am assuming that no one is putting a gun to anyone's head to buy tickets or show up.
     
  3. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    The problem is you lack conviction. I want to affect change, but I have to still go to matches. I bet if attendance really dropped off, say 50 percent. Things would change.

    The NFL team in my city has been horrible the last few years. They are doing everything to get fans to come back. Fans have voted with their wallets and ownership is responding.
     
  4. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    I know you and vifvaf disagree, without the business side. Clubs don't exist.

    I am looking at it how a club should look at it. They are fighting for entertainment and discretionary spending dollars.
     


  5. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    What I am saying is that to get those fans who follow Manchester United, or Barcelona through TV instead of going to see Huddersfield or Fortuna, those clubs need to give people a reason (play attractive/winning football) to get those people to the ground. Instead of watching Barcelona or Manchester United.

    There is a debate in MLS in the states. How do they tap into the football fan who follows Premier League, La Liga, Seria A to come to MLS games if they live in/close to a team?
    Some people who follow European leagues won't attend MLS matches or watch them on tv. It is the same fight.
     
  6. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

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    There will always be fans who refuse to support their hometown team. I will never be one of those people. It's easy for people to latch onto a front runner.

    A club like F95 can't play like Barcelona or Real Madrid. They don't have the budget. It's ludicrous to think that's what they have to do. THere's no way for a team to have that sort of budget. It's about having pride in your community and supporting your team. There are people that don't care about it. There always will be. That doesn't make it right.
     
  7. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    Not saying they have the budget to play like Barcelona. They have to figure out how to get those folks who follow Barcelona, or Manchester United and not their club to follow their club F95.

    Just like MLS has to figure out how to tap into those who follow European football to follow and buy tickets to MLS games.
     
  8. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

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    Barcelona are, most likely, not much of a comeptition for either team, and Manchester only for Huddersfield. In Düsseldorf 99% of people can't even watch those teams on TV, unless they do so in bars. For Düsseldorf it's more likely Schalke, Dortmund or Bayern that's a problem - although Düsseldorf don't really have that much of a problem with support. RW Oberhausen or MSV Duisburg on the other hand...

    There's no way to get your typical gloryhunter to go to a game, though. No way other than becoming a "super club" yourself, that is.

    Any club that's not one of this few über-rich is much better off doing the exact opposite. Listen to the fans you already have, strengthen the sense of community. Fortuna Düsseldorf has survived the last 15 years because of their core fanbase that supports them no matter what. The fairweather fans are back now anyway that they are winning, and they will be gone again if they stop winning. Nothing you can do about this. Some fairweather fans turn into hardcore fans - but not really because they love the brand of football, or whatever.
     
  9. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    How would not showing up for a Sevilla match impact the tv company? It might hurt Sevilla through loss of concession sales (which are hardly a major part of income in Spain anyway) but their complaint isn't against Sevilla. It's not as if Sevilla chose to play games on Monday and Thursday evenings.

    If someone got hit in the eye by a football it could do serious damage too. Should they cancel the game?

    Again, how will no showing up hit tv companies?
     
  10. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    That struggle has always been there.

    Unfortunately, the way tv is now, it almost becomes a huge advert luring younger fans into supporting the big clubs. More and more money goes to the top sides. As a result they are more successful and get more tv coverage. The success an tv coverage tempts more fans.

    It's easy to say clubs just need to attract more fans, but the odds are stacked against them every inch of the way.

    TV just wants big ratings, and big ratings are delivered when the best supported sides are winning, so it wants big sides to always win. As a result it pays the bigs sides more money to help them out.

    The logical conclusion of such a "business model" is that football becomes a pro sport in the same way that pro-wrestling is a pro sport - just set up to have a small selection of winners for the tv watchers to cheer.

    The dedicated couch potato is almost a lost cause. You really have to get the younger fan in. Some of those couch potatoes might jump on the bandwagon if a club goes up to the top flight, but it's not as if clubs in the 2nd tiers around the world aren't trying to do that already. The idea of boosting crowd number by getting promoted is hardly radical new thinking.
     
  11. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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  12. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    Leagues need to negotiate as one and divide the money up equally like the NFL. maybe local media revenue is more, but, everyone should get an equal slice of the pie.

    In terms of pro-wrestling. I hope that football is more of a sport than pro wrestling. Pro wrestling to me is entertainment, not a competition.

    In terms of MLS there is no way of promotion/relegation. They still need to find a way to market to those who only follow European leagues and won't watch/attend an MLS game. There is no Promotion to help with that.
     
  13. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

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    I agree with you, but that isn't likely to happen any time soon. The big clubs have no interest in sharing revenues with the minnows.
     
  14. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    Perhaps a Harlem Globetrotters game is more of a comparison. Deliberately unmatched sides to almost guarantee a win for the club that "the fans" want to see win.

    Everything in the last 25 years has gone further in that direction. The result is that once competitive clubs are being turned into minnows in the quest for better TV ratings.
     
  15. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    You only get crowd shots when a shot of the crowd is a good shot. A low crowd is less likely to provide a good shot, but that's all there is too it. They aren't trying to pretend the ground isn't half empty.

    TV has them over a barrel. Accept £25 million and crappy slots, or take no money and probably end up getting relegated.

    I mean, if the NFL tv deal meant that a particular club was forced to kick off at 11 pm on Thursdays for their home games, they'd also have the option of not accepting the tv deal and getting no money.

    Not accepting the tv deal would condemn them to almost permanent last-place finishes, so it's not quite the easy choice you always seem to insist it is.
     
  16. guignol

    guignol Moderator Staff Member

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    there's already a reason. the best reason. win or lose. those who understand that reason have understood everything.

    [​IMG]
    would the buddha have supported real united? not bloody likely!

    with this no one can disagree. it is exactly what we're on about! the extra share that goes to the two clubs that dominate (and which ensures their domination will not only continue but increase) is not "local media"... it is the result of unconscionably unfair distribution of the global contract.
     
  17. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    I would imagine most producers of games want full stadia for a couple of reasons. Good crowd shots, better atmosphere.

    In terms of the NFL their TV deal is bargained collectively. The committee that negotiates the deal would have to agree to that. I can't remember if Spain is negotiated collectively or individually. If individual, then, the networks probably have more leverage. But, if collectively, then the clubs have some leverage. You want to broadcast our games. Here are the stipulations. Usually the clubs or leagues acquiesce. But, there is still a choice. You can say no.
     
  18. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    Then the other clubs have to agree to break away. They need to talk to Barcelona and Real Madrid and say - you need someone to play every week. This point should be made to the networks as well. We should be equal partners. If the answer is still no. Then, say fine. We are forming our own league. You can have El Classico every week for 38 straight weeks. See how the networks like that. I am assuming that you are talking about Spain.

    The clubs need to stand up for themselves.
     
  19. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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  20. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

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    So all the biggest leagues in Europe or any league for that matter should adapt to satisfy "external" fans from Asia or USA through television ? No thank you.
     
  21. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    Who wants all of that REVENUE! The owners and clubs do for one! So do the players. The game is bigger than it has ever been. With countries like the US, China Australia driving that revenue.

    When was the last time Chelsea, Manchester United, or Liverpool embarked on a pre-season tour of Norway?

    Why are American businessman buying clubs in the EPL? There is money to be made? Why are they not buying any Norwegian clubs?
     
  22. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

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    Once again you seem to miss the point of not hurting the club you support, and at the same time showing off your protest for media or other things you may dissagree to.
     
  23. vifvaf

    vifvaf Member

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    I may be like that where you come from and how you view a club. And that might be the key to why you do not understand why people do theese things and why they are so upset.
     
  24. Schapes

    Schapes Member

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    So you think the tennis ball incident was just? It is never ok to throw things on a pitch. No matter how you feel. Like I said , you, guignol and Richard L lack conviction.
     
  25. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

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    that doesn't exist here except in incredibly rare cases.

    The idea that someone like Sunderland are perhaps choosing not to be competitive is ridiculous.

    If a club underinvested it'd get poor results, lower crowds and bring in less money. They don't have the guaranteed revenue stream, or gifts of draft picks etc for being crap, that US sports have.

    Then your guess shows you have no idea. The problem here is that clubs invariably spend more than they can afford. They don't sit back, picking up the cash, as it'd be just too much of a dangerous game to play.


    That fact that NFL fans are happy to pay high prices for season tickets while owners underspend and pocket the cash shows that there aren't too many lessons they can give about effective ways to protest.
     
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