The Klinsmann Coaching thread, v1

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bungadiri, Dec 28, 2011.

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  1. bungadiri

    bungadiri Super Moderator Staff Member

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    For the ongoing discussion about Klinsmann's coaching of the USMNT.

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  2. I<3F50

    I<3F50 Member

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    Re-posting something that was closed right before the last thread was closed-

    Didn't really know where to put this but I had the urge to tell someone. I live in SoCal and yesterday my cousin got to meet Jurgen Klinsmann. His JV team played Mater Dei and won 1-0. Klinsmann's son plays goalie for Mater Dei and was at the game. Real shame considering I went to his game the day before. He showed me a picture and it's really weird seeing a bunch of young kids around him while he's wearing a t-shirt and sweatshirt.
  3. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    The sequence at 46 secs started with Boca->Torres->Shea. In the old style boca would have booted a long hopefull ball in the direction of Altidore, praying he would come down with it.

    -TheHoustonHoyaFan-

    Like Adiaga Two said, one chance.... One or two chances in seven games? That's pathetic. I don't care if we're switching styles. That is down right terrible.

    And like I said before when I posted that article from Zonal Marking, that goal demonstrated general principles of how to break down teams that sit deep, and narrow and allow you to have the ball like Slovenia do/did. Switch the point of attack quickly from front to back and side to side. You don't need to be a possession team to do that/ know how to do that.

    I just don't understand why we have to play this way at the senior level. Why can't we just develop our youth that way and reap the benefits in the future? It'd be much easier because we wouldn't waste games on a "transition period" and we'd be playing the way we play best. Once the youth hits the top, we play the style Juergen wants. Not even the style Juergen wants, the style that suits the players. That's the way you're supposed to do things. Play the way your players play best, at least when it comes to getting results. Development is a different matter, and is something that should be left to the youth teams, and NOT the senior national team like Juergen is trying to do. There's nowhere near enough time.
  4. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

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    This has sort of blown up today if anyone wants to discuss...

    http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_...n-jurgen-klinsmann-us-national-team.html#more

    Certainly, he doesn't have the credibility of a Kasey Keller. But it's now officially multiple American players (with no vested interest in NT call-ups) and one ex-USMNT coach who have gone public with being, well...let's say less than thrilled by the first 6 months of Klinsmann.


  5. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member

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    That is f'ing stupid. The Germans are the best available players, end of story.
  6. Friedel'sAccent

    Friedel'sAccent Moderator Staff Member

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    I will now proceed to neg-rep myself for spending 5 minutes of my life reading the comments to that article.
  7. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

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    On Jones, Chandler, and Johnson, I agree.

    Williams and definitely Morales I'm a little more skeptical of.

    Regardless of a player's nationality, a huge problem I and others have with Klinsmann is his locking-in of the player pool he wants to use so early on, and in the process has wasted the "experimental" phase of his cycle. There's only one more A-team game that doesn't matter left.

    Klinsmann is allowed to have "favorites" like every other national team coach, but he seems to have a lot more out-of-leftfield favorites than other coaches, some of whom have been kept around despite poor performance. Williams starting at right mid three games in a row in particular was about the most head-scratching personnel move I've ever seen from a USMNT coach.

    For one last point, I don't inherently have any problem with a foreign coach or foreign-raised players. What I do have a problem with is a foreigner with an underwhelming coaching resume pretending he's the great messiah to lead us yankee bumpkins out of a supposed soccer wilderness...then falling on his face and using his condescension as an excuse for his shitty results.

    And when two competing players are at about the same empirical level, one being an American-raised MLS player and the other being some 2. Bundesliga guy who grew up in Gelsenkirchen, I'd rather reward the former.
  8. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

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    And one more thing...US Soccer isn't a publicly-funded organization, and professional sport is a field in which verbal communication is crucial.

    If you want to play for the USMNT, you should probably speak English or at least learn it quickly.

    [​IMG]
    whip repped this.
  9. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Now you are moving the goal posts. :) You originally said:

    Originally Posted by TheNearPost
    "The problem is that we don't have the players to use slower, more patient, deliberate possession to break down defenses."

    I gave you at least 3 examples from video of our players using Klinsman's new style executing 6 to 13 pass sequences to break down defenses and create chances. Now the complaint is the number of chances.

    If I went through the USMNT 72 shots in the 7 Klinsman games plus the 20 or so additional chances that did not lead to shots and detail the passing/possession sequence of each you would just move the goal posts again. :D

    I think we have established that we do have players who can execute a possession style to break down defenses!
  10. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

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    Agreed. I know most on Big Soccer don't like Tony Kornheiser, but he used to always say that he has no interest in talking to athletes. Preston Zimmerman is exhibit 1.
  11. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

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    Then how come we can't beat teams like Costa Rica and Ecuador who use the ghastly, primitive bunker style that's supposedly such an ineffective way to play?

    How come we've only scored 5 goals in 7 games, with only two of those games against superior opposition? Of those 5 goals, only one had anything to do with a long spell of possession.

    As long as we aren't beating teams like the one's we've been playing, your statement that I quoted above is empirically untrue.
  12. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Dempsey agrees with you!

    “It’s been a good thing,” said Dempsey. “It’s freshening things up, definitely giving a lot more players a chance to try and prove themselves. If you’re able to play for the country, no matter whether you’ve lived there your entire life or not, the important thing is you have to be good enough, and that when you do play you wear it with pride and never take it for granted. When you do that [for the USA], I think we’re happy to have any player, and the guys who have come in have done that.”

    http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/...-usa-jurgen-klinsmann-champions-league-122411
  13. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Well this is new for me :) My first time dealing with the "moving goal posts" accusation/metaphor

    I don't really think I've moved goal posts at all, or much really. My general point is that we've not looked good enough playing possession to think we're going to be ready come Qualifying time. I suppose I'll take a dink for saying the problem was that we're not able to create chances, and then saying it was not enough chances.

    Either way, most of the chances we've seen have had nothing to do with possession, and more to do with the speed/skill of Shea, the skill/creativity of Dempsey, the brute athleticism and skill of Altidore, and Chandler and Cherundolo's overlaps. No surprise that once we went up against two teams that were better than us in France and Belgium, we produced nothing, although to be fair, Shea had just gotten off a long season for FC Dallas and the guy looked tired like Michelin.
  14. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

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    Here are our goals under Klinsmann:

    -A low Brek Shea cross somehow ends up at Robbie Rogers' feet in garbage time. After a thrown-in no less; what are we, Stoke City?

    (two consecutive shutouts)

    -After another ugly, almost cro-magnon long ball cross from Brek Shea, Dempsey does some nice shimmying in the box to free himself before roofing it.

    (two consecutive shutouts)

    -Slovenian goalie distributes poorly, and Edson Buddle smashes the loose ball in.

    -The worst of all BigSoccer night terrors: a set-piece goal delivered by Michael Bradley.

    -A Jozy Altidore penalty after a long passing sequence that is apparently the greatest goal the USMNT has ever scored.

    Only the last one had anything to do with a long possession sequence. And even then, an actual chance was not created even though we were fouled.
  15. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    Ugly and scrappy is US Soccer though.
  16. DynamoEAR

    DynamoEAR Member+

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    :rolleyes:
    what's a real american to you? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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  17. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    There are green card Americans dying in Afghanistan right now.
  18. DynamoEAR

    DynamoEAR Member+

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    since you said you don't qualify since you were naturalized in your pos rep,

    Freddy Adu probably doesn't according to this clown.:rolleyes:

    Well, I hate throwing judgement out, but i can see him being so "USA IS #1, you have to be born here to be a true one!", considering he was born and raised in a what many might consider insular place

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasco,_Washington#Government
  19. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    lol
  20. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    At the end of the day, he is the evaluator of Talent.

    I think you are really showing your hand here.

    You hate the fact that Klinsi' is foreign, and is trying to bring a 'foreign' style to us which many fear 'americans' can't pick up, so we should stick to our bread and butter.

    I wonder how things would be if it was Bielsa who came in instead of Klinsi' and did the same things. Would there be the same doubt given his reputation as a coach?

    He has good ideas, but because of his lack of success with Bayern, people are ready to jump ship (with reason) because things aren't going to well from the get go.

    Really though, did people expect us to pick up the style of possession style frmo the start?

    I know I didn't, but that's because I know with anything, it takes time, and chemistry between players to get a system like this to work.

    I have actually played this style of play growing up, granted not nearly as high as the NT :p, but it IMO from playing and being coached this way, takes chemistry and understanding amongst fellow teammates to get it all flowing.

    Will this work in the end or not, who knows. But one things for sure, it will take time.

    People are evaluating Klinsi' on these last couple of games like it was a 4 year tenure.

    I have a feeling this thread isn't going to end well lol.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI"]they took our jobs - YouTube[/ame]
  21. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

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    So what? I have to agree with his selections?

    I guess your accusing me of being a xenophobe here. I could really give two shits.

    I wish Klinsmann was actually implementing some exotic foreign style we've never heard of. This has been silly bunkerball dressed up in a fancy asymmetrical formation.

    You mean the Bielsa who has a 22-year history of coaching in multiple countries and winning numerous trophies, all while playing some of the most innovative football on the planet?

    Yeah, as a matter or fact, things would be a lot different. Because Bielsa actually has a coaching reputation.

    Klinsmann just talks shit on TV.

    Yeah, how unreasonable of us to be concerned with the fact that several highly decorated players and administrators at Bayern publicly stated that the coach we're spending $8 million on didn't have a clue what he was doing.

    No, which is why we're upset with Klinsmann and are criticizing him for this counter-intuitive development process while you're just seeing what you want to see.

    We don't have "time" to take. We have one more A-team friendly before the games start counting.


    As numerous people have pointed out to [you] on other threads, national teams only meet up 6-7 times a year.

    And when in his history has Klinsmann ever shown that he's capable of revolutionizing a team into Barcelona 2.0? The 2006 Germany was widely considered a counter-attack team through and through that Klinsi plugged some fresh legs into...and he still couldn't finish better than 3rd at home.

    Like I said, we don't have time anymore.

    7 games is plenty of time to give a coach before criticizing him. 1 game is enough, really; this is international soccer where there's only a handful of games a year.



    I welcome any challenges to that statement.
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  22. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

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    out of rep
  23. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

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    So . . ..Let's pretend . .

    1. He is a great talent evaluator

    2. Somehow his BS is good because it comes with a German accent. I am thinking he was also a good player, right? Poor results are acceptable under these circumstances.

    3. Passing the ball around the back and playing with 3 defensive midfielders is gonna take some time to learn. Chemistry needs to be developed . . .

    4. Oh yes, the defense has improved . .

    5. We have plenty of time to fix things if they don't work.

    6. It maximizes the strengths of our player pool.

    7. Criticism is unfair or jingoistic . . .

    http://www.socceroverthere.com/?p=7320
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  24. gmonn

    gmonn Member+

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    Do you really believe that stuff? The whole German nation spun the 3rd place finish in the opposite direction than you just did. The job was his to keep after that World Cup. And Germany was widely considered a very attacking team. The whole knock in Germany was that Klinsmann didn't pay enough attention to defense.

    At least you're very up front about hating everything about the K man.
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  25. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    No you don't. He is our coach whether you like it or not. You have to wait patient, and see where this goes. Too early to tell this far. Once we start losing in qualifiers it's time to panic. I'll be right there with you. lol Promise.

    I wouldn't go THAT far, but I def. think trying to get our guys to play a very 'foreign' style of play here in this country and what goes into it, has something to do with it.

    For most people, something they don't understand or ever played before/been coached under (this can be applied to anything) they will naturally fear and not understand.

    Yes, I agree. He has bulked up our defense and arent playing quite like many painted the picture to begin with (ala USA-Spain). Fact of the matter is, we never were going to play like that. For anyone that thought we were, just doesn't understnad.

    Klinsi' has the right idea though, to actually use the techincal side many of ouer players have to our disposal. We now have good players with good techincal skills in our pool. He's just trying to find the best players to pair with each other on the playing field.

    I'm with you on this. I can see why it's hard to follow him, when his last stint was terrible.

    I just wonder, would people be more patient if Bielsa was at the helm?

    Actually, it's not as black and white as that. IMO, that team turned against him. Once he lost his players, he lost his team.

    Have you seen that great movie "That Damned United"? I'd imagine it was alot like that.


    I can see that point of view. Don't blame you for seeing that. But again, this is shaped by how you see our player pool, and the players in it.

    Many don't think our players can adapt to a more 'possession' controlled style. I disagree. And that's where this all stems from.

    It's all about where we stand on our talent at our disposal.
    Yep. And then we'll see how things go.....
    Yikes.... tone it down a little. It's just the internet. We're all just having some picking of brains here. No need to lose your cool because you have trouble turning me to your side.

    it is what it is.

    And what gmonn said.
    I will not judge him on friendlies, because I understand waht he is trying to do. Let him lose us points in qualifiers.... that will be different.


    Relax buddy, it's a joke. Let's just keep it civil here.
    vaquero28 repped this.
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