The Klinsmann Coaching thread, v1

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by bungadiri, Dec 28, 2011.

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  1. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Hm. Fair enough :)

    My concern is still that while we're breeding this style at the senior team, we could really have issues in CONCACAF Qualifying, especially with our performances against Honduras and Costa Rica. I still do not think we can just train the players we have right now into playing possession-based attack.

    Personally, I happen to think that our young players might be better-suited to the counter-attacking style of attack with possession/pressing to manage the game. But that's just what I think.


  2. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    Apparently we are talking greek. OK I can't agree with ya.
  3. Master O

    Master O Member+

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    That game was played in fog, so would that affect your analysis of that game, too?
  4. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator Staff Member

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    We can play a 100% possession style. However, it won't give us maximum results.

    The U.S. was not "scared" of Brasil. Take this trolling somewhere else.

    I've been on both sides of that coin and played the same way.

    In fact, I was unfortunate enough to play an entire season against teams 10x better. And they didn't beat us because we were "scared" of them. They beat us because they were 10x better. We didn't play any differently. They just made us look bad. We were out-classed.


  5. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    This is your opinion, stop defending it like it's fact.

    Right. It's just pride getting in the way of denial. Understandable. I am with you.
    I dont want to answer this the wrong way or you may be very offended.


    For now, "No Comment."
  6. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Very well said!
  7. USAsoccer1

    USAsoccer1 Member

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    We need this guy to show up...

    [​IMG]

    Sunil: I pride myself for eye for talent...But your talent for coaching is still amateur...I was wondering if you want to go pro?
    Klinsman: A Head Nod
  8. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'll stop defending it when you stop insulting my national team by calling them a bunch of chicken $hits.
  9. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    When did I ever talk down to our NT? If anything, posters like yourself, GV, Zoidberg, etc. all don't rate our NT or their skills as high and others do.

    You are calling them 'chicken shit' just based on your arguments against their potential.


    As for my post, saying we won't get 'maximum results' because of the style trying to be implemented by Klinsi' is clearly opinion.


    The real TRUTH is, we won't know how things will turn out until Klinsi' is done.

    In my opinion (see how I stated that there?), Our team will be better off 4 years from now, than we are now. This will open our players/NT for a higher ceiling in the future.
  10. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator Staff Member

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    You. Joking. Must. Be?

    We're rating our NT's skills based on factual evidence. You're calling them "scarded Shitless" without any regard to what has been a hallmark strength of the program over the past TWO DECADES: Mental toughness.

    Clearly. And clearly everything you post has been your opinion paraded as fact.
  11. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    I do not know about anyone else, but everything I post has always been my opinion. Based on my experiences but tempered by my opinion thereof. Secondly when analyzing any game, player or coach opinions are as varied as we are individuals. As has been clear, mine are shaded towards acceptance of Klinsmann's approach and tend to favor the possession style with caveats. I feel that a professional can learn any tactic, some of you disagree. That's OK.
    Some have said that observable facts indicate we play better with bunker- counter techniques but my question is this. How do we know if the only technique we have ever played is that particular style?? the friendlies were a beginning attempt at changing that and we have looked good in some not in others. Inconsistency is a common issue with change and my opinion says that too will change. Before every game I was worried, to the point of loose bowels and nausea until the first touch on the ball. Does that make me a coward? And, those first few touches were always tentative.
  12. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    Show me where in writing it is stated that our NT players don't possess the skills to succeed at playing a more 'passing and possession' based approach, and I will shut up.

    Until then, that again is your opinion or as you say there your 'rating'.

    I'll agree, yes, it is my opinion that our boys looked 'psyched' out of the game, but their actions were clear with how they often were clearing it out and had trouble connecting some times the simplest passes.

    If you've ever seen teams that are 'psyched' out of games, this is what happens.

    I don't think anyone has disagreed with this beyond you, that I can remember. It was evidently clear by watching their body language and what they did in the match. But you are free to disagree. Again it's how I and many else in the past 'post match' threads, saw it, but you're free to disagree.
  13. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    Good post.
  14. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator Staff Member

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    You're moving the goalposts now. I've said all along that we SHOULD possess "more". However, you seem to believe we should be a 100% possession team to get maximum results. I completely disagree. My evidence? The list of clubs our players play for vs. the list of clubs that many top nations' players play for. Market value as well.
  15. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    We've been down this road before. No one is suggesting we bunker
  16. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    No, not necessarily. That may be Klinsi's goal, but will he get us to play like Spain?

    I don't think so. We will be a better possession side by the time this is done. You and 'Nearpost both think that this will lead us only using possession wrongly with it backfiring on us.

    IMO it's the opposite. We'll be better at touching and controlling of the ball over time, which when it comes down to it, when we have to revert back to a more 'bunker' style like under BB when under fire, we'll still be able to hold and control the ball better from the 'style' that Klinsi' is trying to implement.

    Let the man do his work. We'll still see the tactics that got BB to where he was, but with more of a 'possession' flair to it.



    And on your values, yes, you may be going by statistics, but you're losing sight at looking at the individual players. You're only looking at their 'teams' and values and judging them based on that. Look at their skills when they play for their clubs, how they indivudially trap the ball, distribute amongst their teams to teammates.

    Don't just look at stastics and numbers... but do REAL analyization.

    You'll see guys on our starting 11 do have the skill to do well in a more possession based style. Our guys aren't as bad as many think IMO.
  17. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Yup. Took up a ridiculous amount of pages on the last post about Klinsmann. I seem to remember one poster saying that he took a trip to Turkey, came back a week later, and we were STILL arguing about it.

    I believe that we, for the most part, agreed that bunkering is sitting deep with plenty of numbers on defense, but not getting as many numbers forward on offense, hoping that the center forward would make something out of nothing.

    When we really wanted to score, we never played that way. We got numbers back on defense and numbers forward on offense.

    As I've stated before though, we bunkered when we were happy with whatever we had. Again, this worked well when our defense was solid, but not so much when we suffered injuries. We needed to find a better way of managing the game, and we still do.

    Personally, I think that it'll be beneficial to be able to break teams down with more patient possession. However, from a tactical standpoint, it'd be even more beneficial to be able to do both. I'm not saying we'd lose the ability to counter, but I think that Juergen needs to realize the right teams to play a more patient possession approach against, and the right teams to play a counter-attacking/direct approach against. I think that'll be our strength in the future - we've got such a vast variety of players, we could switch styles when we wanted.
  18. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

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    Because you need another 500 posts to see that people's intractable positions really are intractable?

    I think some of the opinions espoused are as harebrained as I'm sure you do, but over the previous ~two months, they've made it abundantly clear that they're not going to let facts or well-argued contrary positions sway them. Is there any point to reopening that aspect of the discussion?

    (Conclusion from the following two pages of posts: Nope.)
  19. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    All this arguing is silly. We've had nothing but friendlies so far.
  20. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    so friendlies serve no purpose in analysis and are free of criticism?
  21. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

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    Absolutely. As you well know, the prior coach was never criticized for the team's performances in friendlies. JK should be judged the same way...
  22. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

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    I'm reminded of the Road Warrior and the Masked Dude...

    "Just walk away."

    I'm more amused and amazed at the inability of folks to walk away from such a ridiculous thread.

    Hell, even Mr. W realizes that Don Rickles couldn't squeeze any more sarcasm, humor or anything remotely resembling reason out of this thread.

    For BS this one is over the top....and to say that about BS is something else.

    This thread was dead about 3 weeks ago. Even zombies would feel tired here.
  23. vaquero28

    vaquero28 Member

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    and it will always be so, those who disliked him, criticized Bradley endlessly and those who dislike Klismann, will criticize him endlessly.
  24. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

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    http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478968

    Here is the thread "I Don't Think Bradley Is The Right Guy" after 2 friendlies.
  25. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

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    Much of the wise ass commentary you see from many of us is that this is not the case.

    There were many who endlessly criticized BB no matter what for 5 years, but now they are being completely hypocritical in their assessment of JK.

    Many have also fled, taken up new names, even though it's obvious who they are, and are trying to take up slightly less radical positions then then had with BB, because they realize how off base they were overall. Yes, it sounds foolish for a net board, but it's happened, and when the same posters would post hundreds of times a week for years, blindly and ignoring the most rudimentary facts over and over, there is a natural willingness to zing them;).

    Yes, there is a group that clearly wants to critique JK no matter what, but it's nothing compared to the blatant idiocy we endured for a while.

    ...and trust me, it was idiotic, blatant and relentless.

    Pretty hard not to make the comments Mr. M just made if you were here, and I didn't think BB was a genius, but I won't kneel at the alter of little Buddha either until he starts to show he can implement.

    Talking and doing are two different things, and his last Reuters article tells me he is starting to get just how hard that will be here. His talk for the year leading up to the job, and his first few months showed zero recognition of that.

    As long as he adapts that's fine with me. That's what is important...for anybody.
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