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The "Messi: the best player in the world. Is it even up for discussion?" thread

Discussion in 'Barcelona' started by jfcule, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. celito

    celito Member+

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  2. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

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    If there's justice, Messi wouldnt be injured in 2007-2008 season and would have won it

    those portuguese are such cry baby, when xavi, messi and iniesta failed to win it they act normally but look at mou and crynaldo. Messi broke La liga record with 50 goals and breaking champions league record with 14, equalling José Altafini from european cup era... plus copa del rey and super cup (beating real madrid on both). So good luck dethroning him.

    Nobody in Barca's camp still moaning aboutlosing La liga this year, but Madrid just keep moaning about every little thing that they thing they deserve but they never got it.
     
  3. Gilmango

    Gilmango Member+

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  4. evil_allan

    evil_allan Member+

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    iirc this was during the war so there was no la liga at the time, so the only games barca was playing were friendlies.
     


  5. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

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    Cronaldo and Mourninho using failed logic here, saying that because Cronaldo won La Liga, or because Messi didn't win anything. Well Messi won last year La Liga, but also UCL and Supercopa and was a top scorer in UCL.

    2010-2011
    Messi: Supercopa, La Liga, Uefa Champions League, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer, 53+28

    > most definitely

    Cronaldo: Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, European Golden Boot, 53+18

    2011-2012
    Messi: Supercopa, Uefa Supercup, Fifa Club World Cup, Copa Del Rey, La Liga Top Scorer, Uefa Champions League Top Scorer, European Golden Boot, bunch of records + WR of scoring in one season club and club + international (73 and 82), 73+36 and 82+41

    > most definitely

    Cronaldo: La Liga, 60+15 and 66+17

    The reverse logic just doesn't work here, at all.

    ---------------------

    On the topic, I think Messi has already proved to be the undisputed best player of this generation. That is the general consensus, I think.
     
    barca_boy03 repped this.
  6. Gilmango

    Gilmango Member+

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    Well I think that you are preaching to the converted in this forum as we are all Barca and Messi fans. Good facts in support, however, the important thing to remember for the Balon d'Or / WPOTY is that it is actually awarded for achievements in a CALENDAR year, not the 2011-2012 football season but solely on 2012. For that reason Messi only has the Copa, so far in 2012, not the CWC, Super Copa or European Super Cup. And also for that reason the start to the 2012-13 season will factor into the race.
     
  7. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

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    In theory yes, but in practice not so much, because it's a subjective vote people can use pretty much any criteria they want. Also if we are forcing calendar year only, it would void the La Liga and UCL, because they aren't calendar year competitions.

    Also Messi has 51 goals already for 11-12 and he's on the course to break 100 goals for club and country, in calendar year. Which would absolutely destroy the previous record of Pele's.
     
  8. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    ^ We aren't "forcing" anything. It simply IS given by calendar years, irregardless of what kinda criteria people use.

    Also: totally preaching to the converted hahah.

    (by the way, nice to see new members with "FC Barcelona" as club :cool:)
     
  9. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

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    No we aren't, that's why seasonal performances matter.
     
  10. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

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    We're talking about "PLAYER" of the year not team of the year

    Messi breaking La liga record with 50 and breaking CL record with 14 (equalling best record in european cup era). Dont forget, he has 28 assist, which is even more than Xavi in 2008-2009 season with 26 assist. Plus 3 goals in world cup qualfier and 2 hattrick in friendlies for Argentina.

    How many thropy Ronaldo Luis win when he's on Barca? he's still best player of the year at the time.
     
  11. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    Seasonal performances matter, but the award is not 2011-2012 (Aug-May+whatever summer happenings). It's 2012 Jan-Dec. Dunno why are we debating this in the first place as facts are facts.
     
  12. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

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    Well I know it is in theory 2012, but people will look also the seasonal performances as it is more convenient. So we agree on that.

    Also, the vote is before FCWC, so it's actually in theory december 2011-november 2012, and that's why Barca's FCWC will include in the criteria in theory also.
     
  13. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    No: it's not "theoretical" only. The award is simply given to the player whom the coaches and captains vote the best in a calendar year. (btw, they should totally change it to be a seasonal thing, not annual thing)

    That's true though. Although I don't think CWC plays a significant part in the votings.
     
  14. realM11

    realM11 Member

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    Ronaldo Luis at his time in barca won three trophies in that first year 1996-97 copa del ray,uefa cup winners cup,supercopa de espana plus no offense but at that time that was a average squad but only Ronaldo and Figo was the big difference.
     
  15. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

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    In theory, or nominally yes.
     
  16. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

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    Yeah Ronaldo won some trophies in Barca, but there is bunch of people who won Ballon d'Or without any trophies or only with minor trophies, and it's not about team performance, rather individual prize.
     
  17. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    Bhahaha ok lol. As if the squad wasn't strong.
     
  18. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

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    Double cup winners, finished two points off top spot in La Liga, yet they're an average squad?
    No offense but you're full of sh!t. The previous season Real Madrid went trophyless and failed to qualify for Europe. THAT is an average squad.
     
  19. Rana catesbeiana

    Rana catesbeiana Member+

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    ^ It could also be the case that that poor LPB fan refers to that Barca as "average" because his standards for Barcelona are just that high. I mean, maybe he has started to "love LPB" in the era where Barcelona has consistently schooled them. Can't know.
     
  20. .Azulgrana.

    .Azulgrana. Red Card

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    I wonder how many goals Messi has in his career to date and how close he is to Pele's 1200+ mark.
     
  21. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

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    TBH, not even close and he'll never even get halfway there. It's not a fair comparison though. I doubt Pele would have scored many more goals than Messi if he were playing right now.
     
  22. .Azulgrana.

    .Azulgrana. Red Card

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    He has nearly 300 goals for Barca's first team alone and another 40+ for his country's national selections. He has around 50-60 for the lower ranks of Barca from what I read but I'm not sure if it's accurate, it may well be more than that. That's nearly/over 400 goals and he just turned 25, heading into the peak years of his career. I think he can get to 700/800 in a few years but Pele's 1,200+ is just unbreakable. How accurate is his goal count by the way?
     
  23. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

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    Stop counting exhibition goals etc. Even I have scored more goals in yard games. Pele has 733 goals for club and country, number definitely hard to achieve, but not impossible for Messi.
     
    Rattlehead repped this.
  24. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

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    Forgot NY Cosmos, so 784.
     
  25. inswinger

    inswinger Moderator Staff Member

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    I was going for a different kind of irony:
    The "Messi: There's no discussion" Discussion
     

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