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The "Messi: the best player in the world. Is it even up for discussion?" thread

Discussion in 'Barcelona' started by jfcule, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

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    Well, then last season Messi won club world cup, copa del rey and super cup plus el pichichi, european golden boots and champions league golden boots.

    What's C Ronaldo achievement this season apart from league? Torres won 3 thropies, 2 of them are major thropies so I guess he should be in top 5 based on thropy he achieved?
     


  2. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

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    It's all about the thropies. :)
     
  3. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

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    All of these madridistas, Portuguese and CR7 sympathizers are making such a big deal out of :rolleyes: all of C. Ronaldo's endless, clutch ''decisive'' goals which he scored to single-handedly win La Liga for RMA :rolleyes: . It seems to them that C. Ronaldo's goal at Camp Nou is the be-all, end-all of the WPOTY discussion.
     
  4. celito

    celito Member+

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    The difference between Ronaldo 10/11 to Ronaldo 11/12 is that he didn't mess up the few chances that he had. With respect to overall performance, he really wasn't that much different. But, I have to say, there is something to be said about being clutch at the right moments. And Ronaldo did improve on that in the last season. And it's also pretty damn impressive to have scored against every La Liga team and having scored in as many away games as home ones. Whether that puts him above Messi's record breaking season is gong to be very subjective and probably down to a personal preference by the voters.

    What I do think is funny about the Cronaldo fans is that last year, Ronaldo had the Pichichi and we all pointed out at the PK goal edge and they laughed. This year, the PK tally was fairly even ( I think Ronaldo had one or two more PK goals but not sure), and Messi beat Ronaldo at scoring.
     


  5. inswinger

    inswinger Moderator Staff Member

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    What's silly is that if either Messi or Ronaldo converted their PKs in their respective CL semis, that would be the clinching factor in a lot of people's minds for who deserves WPOTY, no matter what would've happened in the final. That's how subjective this award can get.

    They don't give the award for "clutch performances" alone. If that were the case, then Agüero would be WPOTY for sure. C'mon, that goal vs. QPR doesn't get any more clutch.

    Plus, the big difference in LPB's season last year wasn't really about any CR7 improvement. It was Benzema and Özil. Those two turned into much better players than in the previous season.

    In practically all the stats, though, it's Messi by a landslide. No one came close to him in goals, goals per shot, assists, dribbles in attacking area, etc.
     
  6. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

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    Why don't we compare who had more ''decisive'' goals :rolleyes:. How do you even quantify that?
     
  7. inswinger

    inswinger Moderator Staff Member

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    Well (taking this a bit too seriously), I remember some years back Yahoo! fantasy soccer used to have a points category for MWG (match-winning goals), meaning players would get a bonus if they scored a goal that ended up being the decisive one in a match. So if a game ended 4-0, the player who scored the 1st goal would get the MWG points. Something like that. I believe they eliminated MWG because there are just too many different possible scenarios.

    But I'm willing to bet Messi owns the MWG category too. CRonaldo has always been an opportunist, getting goals after the game has long been out of reach. Although I think 2010-11 was his vintage year for this.

    What about the stat "team's record in matches in which X player scores"? I'm pretty sure Barça is close to undefeated and untied when Messi scores. Anyone got those numbers?
     
  8. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

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    Ronaldo goal agaisnt Barca doesnt really clinch the title, if Barca won Madrid is still ahead.
     
  9. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

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    The Ronaldo fanboys don't really care about that.
     
  10. barca_boy03

    barca_boy03 Member

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    this has got to be one of the funniest pics i've seen all year
     
  11. Zincubus

    Zincubus Member

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    Apparently Iniesta ( who I love) is now the best in the world !!

    Despite Messi scoring a never to be repeated 82 goals in a season !!??
     
  12. manyfaces

    manyfaces Member

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    Award is for best player in Europe, not the world. And it's mainly because Messi did nothing in Euro2012.
     
    unclesox repped this.
  13. .Azulgrana.

    .Azulgrana. Red Card

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    Still ahead of Ronaldo, who was actually there for every game. Pawned. :D

    Got to love the looks on Ronaldo's face today, he was fuming with anger and jealousy. Surprised he didn't grab a mic though and yell "injustica! injustica!".
     
  14. tadm123

    tadm123 Member

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    Pulling a Kanye West perhaps? I can see him doing that. :p
     
  15. barca_boy03

    barca_boy03 Member

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    they both drive the same type of car, i think. channeling vanity, haha
     
  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

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    The Ballon D'or is way more important anyway. That said, Messi might not win that either. No non-European player has ever won the Ballon d'Or in a year when the Euro is held. The 2 goals CR7 scored against Holland might be the decider - the 2 most overrated goals of the year, I might add (Holland had to win that match by 2 goals, meaning their awful defense was more exposed than ever).
     
  17. .Azulgrana.

    .Azulgrana. Red Card

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    But Messi was ahead of Ronaldo in the UEFA Player of the Year rankings despite not playing at at the Euros and being at a disadvantage with Spain and Portugal being guaranteed votes for Ronaldo. I don't see how he'll be behind him in the Ballon d'Or rankings now.
     
  18. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

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    Maybe because UEFA puts more emphasis on the Champions League where Messi was the top scorer. FIFA voters might factor-in La Liga a bit more where Ronaldo won the main trophy (and the super-cup). So I think it could still go either way....
     
  19. .Azulgrana.

    .Azulgrana. Red Card

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    La Liga and Supercopa to have more weight than CL as well as individual performances and influences? Not a chance.

    Messi has had a better year than Ronaldo, I don't see how he hasn't. And there's no way he shouldn't get it after breaking the records of Pele and Muller with an 82 goal season. We won't see something like that again for a very long time, it has to go to him.
     
  20. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

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    I really have no idea at this point. How much could performance in the early stage of the La Liga campaign factor in?
     
  21. NYfan

    NYfan Member

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    The UEFA player award was voted on by journalists and Ballon D'Or is voted on by players and coaches so I don't think we can predict too much based on the vote that just happened.
     
  22. gmonn

    gmonn Member+

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    Agree. Although journalists also vote in the big award, just that they can be overruled by players and coaches, if I remember correctly. Journalists don't want the same thing year after year. It's called valuing what's interesting over what's true.
     
  23. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

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    Thats not what I wrote at all. Just saying that FIFa voters probably wont totally ignore La Liga like these voters seemed to do. So that will help Ronaldo.
     
  24. .Azulgrana.

    .Azulgrana. Red Card

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    Wouldn't that be better for Messi though? No biased votes coming for Cristiano this way. ;)

    No, I'm not saying it's what you wrote, but you said because Ronaldo won those titles, it'll be factored in a bit more in the votes for the Ballon d'Or. I don't see it. Even if they go by La Liga as a big factor, Messi had more goals, assists, and a bigger influence in his team in the league last season. He had more touches and created more of the ball than Ronaldo did. I'm sorry, but I just can't see any way that Ronaldo should win this over Messi apart from maybe his (agree with you) overrated goals in the Euros against the Dutch who had to come out in full force and pay little attention to defending which made it easier for Portugal.
     
  25. barca_boy03

    barca_boy03 Member

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    there should be a Golden Hair award for Ronaldo, just so he could get his own award without question
     

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