The Things We Hear

Discussion in 'Referee' started by briansnat, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. oldreferee

    oldreferee Member

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    Just this year I was AR for a CR who is currently on TV regularly waving flags at MLS games.
    I popped my flag in one of these situations. It was nowhere near as extreme as yours, but it did share the characteristic that I was the only one in the stadium who knew it happened. The CR blew his whistle (reluctantly IMHO). At half-time, he explained to me that the game simply doesn't need those sorts of calls. Something like, if the players don't expect it, you don't need to give it. (I didn't have the balls to ask if he actually did that in MLS games.)

    We agreed to disagree.


  2. lemma

    lemma Member

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    Jul 19, 2011
    There are two possible approaches.

    Either he does call it, and the players and spectators hoot and holler, but the replay shows he was right, and he gets more appointments.

    Or, he doesn't call it, and nobody complains, but the replay shows he was wrong, and he stops getting more appointments.
  3. gosellit

    gosellit BigSoccer Supporter

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    The phrase going around now is, "Would you rather be right or happy?"
  4. andymoss

    andymoss BigSoccer Supporter

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    I think this means you going to start the game with one referee and one neutral AR?

    If so, this is not an approved method. You MUST have three people. The only USSF approved standard is the diagonal system of control.

    In your situation, find a warm-body to hold a flag and indicate ball into touch. Sit them at the corner flag if you need to.


  5. superdave

    superdave Member+

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    In this respect, American parents and coaches are EXACTLY LIKE professional players. :p
    dadman repped this.
  6. andymoss

    andymoss BigSoccer Supporter

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    You've got to remember that most spectators, coaches, players, etc., don't know that they don't know.....
  7. QuietCoach

    QuietCoach Member

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    The purpose of the offside rule is to prevent "cherry picking" -- stationing an attacker near the goal to receive long passes and score with a cheap shot. I understand that Law 11 may allow penalizing that player who was 20 yards back into her own half before touching the ball, but it seems like a very picky technicality. Neither the spirit of the game nor the intent of the offside law require such a call. The players won't expect or understand the call. The fans don't want it.

    Socal lurker, have you considered that maybe the reason you didn't flag for that offside is not that you were slow or cowardly, but that at some level, you realized it was trifling?

    - QC
  8. La Rikardo

    La Rikardo Member+

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    If IFAB didn't want these sorts of flags, they'd add something to Law 11 saying that a player must be in an offside position when the ball is played AND when the player becomes involved in play. They haven't done that. Offside is offside. Simple as that.
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

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    I feel very, very strongly that the law should be changed in this manner, for precisely the reasons you state.

    But right now, it's the rule. What if a defender eases up knowing the player receiving the ball is offside, and that hesitation allows a goal scoring opportunity? What do you say to the defender when he says that the player was offside?
  10. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

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    I don't reside in the US, so whatever the USSF wants doesn't apply to me.

    This is the second time in a week I've had to employ this method for the first 10-15 minutes of a game, and neither time have any of the higher up's disapproved of it.

    I would rather, as a person of great fitness, run my ass off covering the game as a CR and filling the role of the absent AR than have a parent who is most likely useless, even if it is just for in's and out's. That's how I did it back in Australia for ten years, that's how I'll continue to do it in Canada.
  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    I've pondered this, but I think that any "fix" of this is likely to create more problems than it solves. Current Law is pretty clear -- if you are "off your side" you remain off until a teammate touches or the defense posseses. Making that more complicated, and expecting an AR to continue to track that during dynamic play is, IMHO, unrealistic in terms of drafting and application. Considering the infrequency of which these truly odd plays happen, I suspect that any cure would be worse than the disease.

    (I also won't give myself a get-out-of-jail free card on trifling; I think it is a dangerous and slippery slope to use trifling when a player who was clearly in an OSP actually touches and controls the ball. I see the argument, but I don't think it is the right conclusion.)
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

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    The play I'm talking about is when the attacker doesn't touch the ball until he's in his own half. That would be very easy to keep track of. Calling such plays offside doesn't do a damn thing to stop cherry picking, it doesn't force attacking teams to use the whole field (the other purpose of offside)...I mean, when the player receives the ball he's still in his own end! All it does is slow the game down and give the defense another cotton-pickin' advantage.
  13. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

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    So, all the defenders are up joining an attack, while an attacker dawdles 10 yards behind the halfway line. While he is still 10 yards past the halfway line a ball is played towards him. He makes one step onto his onto his defensive end of the field (still behind all of the defense), and takes off. You really want that to be OK? Sorry, I'm not buying the proposal.

    I'm not ready to ditch the traditional concept of being "off his side" to let him be involved here.
  14. campbed

    campbed Member

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    Can we pick up this interesting Offside discussion, and plop it in its own thread please.
    It is ruining a perfectly fun and light weight thread (i.e. this entire page has been hijacked)
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  15. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

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    Really?
    I need to start posting more mea culpas.
    This is going to help my conscience alot.
    dadman repped this.
  16. meyers

    meyers Member

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    We usually do ignore them for quite some time, until they just become too obnoxious. And I have explained "handling" to the parents at half-time.
  17. Law5

    Law5 Member+

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    I think we need to get my friend Casmir Onyegwara, Catholic priest and USSF grade 6 referee, on here to do the forgiving. ;)
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  18. chwmy

    chwmy Member

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    I am really sorry that you have run across many, many refs who have given smart ass responses to spectator situations that require defusing. I must confess that I have not ever witnessed such a thing.

    Ignoring is not always an option. And the referee's responsibility is to the game, not the fans. And time during the break I am usually focused on hydrating and debriefing with the rest of the crew- parent education is not really on the agenda.

    I did a hs game a couple of months ago. A foul near midfield and a quick restart by the home team led to a goal. A visiting parent goes apeshit about how the defending team wasn't ready. In a lull in the rant (and against my better judgment), I tell him that the team who got fouled can take the kick as soon as they like. Very matter of fact, not cynical or derisive.

    As the visitors position for the kickoff, the same parent starts booing. "Boo! Boo! Boo!". There are only 30 or so people watching, so this wasn't a random voice in a crowd, and I feel the booing is a distraction. I walk over to the visiting coach and tell him to address it, which he does, and the game continues.

    So much for fan education, eh?
  19. Law5

    Law5 Member+

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    Quiet a few years ago, one of our senior referees was doing a high school boys' varsity dual in a stadium but there was only one spectator in the stands. The spectator is giving him a load of opinion as the game is going on. His back is to the guy, of course, but he knows who's saying the stuff because there's only one option. Roy had finally had enough. He turns to the guy and yells "Shut up!!!! If you don't shut up, this game is over and you're why!!!" As Roy later said, "Do as I say, not as I do." But the guy did shut his mouth. :p
  20. SimpleGame6

    SimpleGame6 Member

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    I would've said "Find someone who agrees with you!"
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  21. briansnat

    briansnat Member

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    To get this thread back on track and off of the serious offside discussion (which belongs elsewhere) I thought of another good recent one. U9 girls game. Ball is rolling toward defender who basically freezes. Attacker comes running hard after the ball and literally trips over the defenders foot. The defender did nothing wrong. The attacker goes down hard. The coach of the attacking team is livid that I didn't call a foul. I was a few feet away from the coach when it happened and I told him there was no foul.

    He said "How can there be no foul when my player is on the ground crying?"
  22. JoseP

    JoseP Member

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    U-11 boys game. Defender reaches for the ball but can't get it while the offensive player comes through and gets tripped. Blow whistle.

    Defender - "Ref, I didn't trip him. I stuck my leg out and he fell over my leg."

    Me - "I think that pretty much defines what tripping is."
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  23. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

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    Awarded a free kick outside the box last night which was subsequently converted to a goal. Put the home team up 4-1. Parent from the team just giving up the goal "that one is on you ref." Since I don't want to disparage the players of the team I have a chuckle enjoying my non-announced comeback line "at least the first three weren't on me."
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  24. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

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    I would love to see a sociological study of a youth sports parents sideline. What actually makes them say what they say? Does it matter by education, income, male/female, younger or older? I'm in the advertising business where we are always parsing stuff by these types of metrics. Have you ever noticed any differences in the makeup of the town or the teams where you get the comments? I'm racking my brain now trying to come up with a composite picture of the yeller, but I don't know if you can put easy labels. I think I have had it happen all across the socio-economic scale. I did have a club from Western Pa a couple of weeks ago and they were about as blue collar as you can get and they were non-stop from the opening whistle to the end. They were sitting as a group about 30 yards from the field and it was like they were at a Steelers game.
    La Rikardo repped this.
  25. Hattrix

    Hattrix Member

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    Wait, we're allowed to be happy? I've been going about this all wrong...
    dadman repped this.

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