1. Save 40-80% on great soccer jerseys. Shop today at BigSoccer Shop!

Time for a new "Mass Shootings" thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by argentine soccer fan, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Location:
    Ala-dama-BAMA
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    --other--
    See, this is why the purpose of the Fouding (deadbeat) Fathers doesn't need to be treated like gospel. Adam A(u)nt here could shoot only twice before someone beat all the mascara off him. Guys now can squeeze off seemingly endless rounds before reloading.
     


  2. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
    what does this mean to you?
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
    look at the context as well as the purpose.
    most people seem to only recall the last 14 words...
    but the context of keeping and bearing arms is within that of a well-regulated militia.
    and the purpose is to ensure the security of the state. not your own personal security, and certainly not to (as many argue) to allow citizens to overthrow the state, should it become tyrannical.
    so if you want to exercise your 2nd amendment right (the actual 2nd amendment right, not the imagined one that comes from only reading the last 14 words), I say go down to your local National Guard recruiter and sign up! last time I checked, your right to keep and bear arms (a fully automatic assault rifle at that!) within that context (i.e. that of the constitution) has not been infringed upon.
     
    dapip and Boloni86 repped this.
  3. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Location:
    Ala-dama-BAMA
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    --other--
  4. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
    of course, this doesn't mean that people can't own a gun for other valid purposes - like personal protection, hunting, sporting, killing your neighbor's annoying dog, overthrowing the government, etc. it only means that you don't have a constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms for those purposes and within these non-constitutionally protected contexts. the only context within which the government protects your right to bear arms is within that of a well-regulated militia, and only for the purpose of protecting the state (as opposed to overthrowing it - which many gun nuts seem to think was the real intent of the framers of the constitution).
    the state may still allow you to keep and bear arms for these other purposes and within these other parameters, but it's entirely up to the states. they can pass laws (i.e. regulate) to allow you access to guns within certain limits, or they may pass laws to disallow you access to guns completely (outside the 2nd amendment guarantee).
    so people need to stop citing their "2nd amendment right" in trying to make the case for their freedom to own whatever gun they feel they need for whatever purpose they feel they need it. the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with that. all it does is guarantee you the right to join the National Guard should you feel so inclined.
     
    Chris M. repped this.


  5. YankHibee

    YankHibee Member+

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Location:
    indianapolis
    That's essentially my argument above. Now, that's specifically not how the SCOTUS has interpreted it recently. The chances of that interpretation were effectively ended a couple years ago unless the Court has big changes.
     
  6. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Location:
    Bluff City for a while
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Country:
    United States
    Wait, so I can heal myself by pooring on oil and wine?

    Was that the message I was supposed to take away?
     
  7. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
    I think it's at least worth a try.
    I have this disease that makes my mouth really dry. so I resort to this methodology on a regular basis. can't quite tell if it's working or not, but I hesitate to give it up, just in case it is working.
     
  8. Boogie_Down

    Boogie_Down Member+

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    United States
    So much for strict constructionist interpretations.
     
  9. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
    seriously. I thought we were supposed to use the plain meaning of the word and only consider what's between the four corners of the paper - or parchment. using those concepts, I don't see how any sane judge can come up with a different interpretation.
     
  10. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    You are funny (funny odd, not funny ha ha). In one thread you predict a mass riots and in next thread you ask why anyone would need more than a musket to protect themselves and their property.

    Perhaps you should ask the Koreans in LA?

     
  11. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Location:
    Ala-dama-BAMA
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    --other--
    You're a dumbass, Pim.

    I didn't ask anything.
     
  12. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Location:
    Bluff City for a while
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Country:
    United States
    video blocked at work, but I'm assuming that is the trigger happy Koreans initianting gun fire.
     
  13. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Pim? LOL! Aren't you clever? And of course you didn't ask, you simply spout some foolishness thinking it is clever, so I suggested you ask the Koreans shop keeps trying to to repell a mob what they think of your opinion.
     
  14. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Location:
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    They aren't black so Auria doesn't care about them.
     
  15. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Location:
    Ala-dama-BAMA
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    --other--
    Of course not, Pim.
     
  16. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Nope, a simple show of force by shopkeepers to keep the looters at bay. It worked while neighboring shops were ransacked.
     
  17. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2000
    Location:
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Country:
    United States
    And who wouldn't want to live in such a freedom-rich paradise?

    By the way, what does the Constitution say about ammunition? Highly restricted access to ammo is how the Swiss do it. "Everyone" has a gun, it's just hard as hell to get bullets.
     
  18. GiuseppeSignori

    GiuseppeSignori Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Location:
    Chicago
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
     
  19. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I wouldn't want to live in the freedom-rich paradise of the LA riots.

    And this is what the Constitution says: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
     
  20. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    taos,nm
    Your first and third commas were not in the version which was ratified.
     
  21. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Forgive me.

    Minnman, here, for the record, is the final version of the text:

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

    Sorry if I mislead you earlier.
     
  22. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    taos,nm
    I've posted essentially this a couple of times before, but the conversation keeps coming around to the same place, so I'm going to do it again:

    Consider the phrase "Well-Tempered Clavier." It does not mean "a piano made of hardened steel" and it does not mean "a piano which does not scream and throw things." "Well-tempered" in this context has a technical meaning referring to the way it was tuned.

    Similarly "Well-regulated" in reference to militia does not mean "subject to the government's rules and laws." The professional soldiery of the time were referred to as "regulars" and the local levies as "militia." There was plenty of experience throughout the western world with militia which, when called produced about 30% attendance, showed up armed only with pitchforks and clubs, or with fowling pieces and three rounds of ammunition, or unshod and without blankets, or impeached any officers who asked them to actually march or fight, etc etc.

    The fledgling US, expecting to have little to no professional army, needed a militia which could be grown into a professional army over the course of any extended hostilities (which was exactly what happened in the Revolution.)

    In other words, they knew they needed a militia which would show up armed and equipped, and obedient to the leadership of their choice-- a "well regulated militia"-- and they knew they could not get one unless the raw materials existed. That is, ordinary citizens who owned and were used to using firearms, were reasonably fit, and willing to commit to extended and potentially distant service.

    In addition it is worth pointing out that private ownership of artillery was not mentioned because it did not occur to anyone as needing mention-- it was so commonplace not only in North America but throughout Europe, and for that matter the Muslim world, that the notion anyone would ever interpret their sentence to mean "muskets and rifles only" would have seemed truly improbable to them.
     
    ceezmad, Boloni86, crazypete13 and 3 others repped this.
  23. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Location:
    Bluff City for a while
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Country:
    United States
    If you had your gun, you'd be okay.

    Oh, wait, I didn't have a gun, and everything turned out just fine.
     
  24. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    taos,nm
    That's pretty self-centered isn't it? Do you have any idea how many died because you didn't defend them?:p
     
    JeremyEritrea repped this.
  25. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2003
    Location:
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Country:
    Colombia
    Better yet, if instead of having a mob armed with bats and sticks, I bet one armed with assault weapons would had been more peaceful.
     
    Chesco United repped this.

Share This Page