U23 WNT Kicks off 2012

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Tokonta, Jan 9, 2012.

  1. Tokonta

    Tokonta Member

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    http://www.ussoccer.com/News/U-23-WNT/2012/01/U23-WNT-Kicks-off-2012-With-Camp-in-Florida.aspx

    Well at first glance I've never heard off some of these players and after looking at the stats of few....I can see why!
    I never understand why Coaches bring in players and put them in positions that they have never played especially at U-23. Really, without naming names there are better position players throughout the ACC and Pac-12.
    Lastly, if Waldrum is going to use this forum to reward his players US Soccer is in trouble....but we knew that already!:rolleyes:


  2. Flea2009

    Flea2009 Member

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    There are only 2 Notre Dame players on the list. I am in the UK so the only college soccer I see an occasional Notre Dame and Milwaukee game yet I know all but 2 of these players.
  3. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    If you haven't heard of most of these players then you haven't paid attention to college ball.

    imo, a better critique of the list is to ask where more of the U23 pros are. I do think there are professional players in the U23 age bracket and if we're looking to improve our post-college game, this is a place to do that. There are U23 players in the pro ranks that are better (imo) than some of these kids. Reed, DaCosta, and D’Agostino are the 3 I see. Oh, and Lauren Barnes who is listed as being w/ Philly but I don't remember her signing being announced.

    Of course some of these players are seniors and will likely be drafted this week. But it is the U23 team and I'm not sure which competitions they're playing this year. :shrug:
  4. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

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    WTF are you talking about rewarding his players? I've seen both Scofield and Tucker play and they are top college players.

    He has 2 very good Notre Dame players on the list and you are crying foul. Give me a break, Jillian Ellis had many UCLA players on her squad when she was a U-Coach and no one was complaining.

    The way you put it, why don't we just play all ACC players in the U-Teams and forget everyone else.

    Waldrum is a good coach, a student of the game and knows talent around the country and its NOT all centered in the ACC!

    He hasn't been on the job for a few hours and you are already giving him sh_t.

    Ridiculous!


  5. gogogo

    gogogo Member

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    I agree with this, especially the part about the U23 pros - there have to be more that could benefit from the exposure. I basically hope that Randy makes the U23s a bit more relevant as a feeder for the WNT, although that level of coordination within US Soccer is more the exception than the rule.
  6. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    Actually, there has been a bunch of complaints and/or charges that Ellis may have used her position w/ the U20s as a recruiting boon w/ multiple players deciding to not commit to a college team at certain times b/c they thought there might be an impact on their getting calls.

    But I agree that the charge against Waldrum doesn't have merit based on this particular list.
  7. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

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    I have no problem with this list of players. A person who really pays attention to college soccer around the country (And not just UNC and the ACC) would recognize most of these players.

    Also, this is an initial roster. There will be other call-ups and other kids called up. As I said there is one thing I've learned about Randy Waldrum is that he is a student of the game and is a very well informed coach about soccer around this country. He was also President of the NSCAA.

    You can be sure that he knows the talent around the country.

    And BTW, at a quick glance of the roster it seems to me that the ACC and PAC-12 are the most represented conferences.
  8. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

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    http://www.nationalsoccerwire.com/news/700/15502

  9. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

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    By my count, half the players are from the ACC and Pac 12.
  10. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

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    There you go, Tokonta. 1/2 the players are from the ACC and Pac-12.
    Do you want more?
  11. Tokonta

    Tokonta Member

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    Yea, you guys make me laugh! MRAD do you recognize MOST of these players. MOST being the optimal word. Come on really, pay attention to college soccer you or me?

    Ok here it is not one Big Ten player invited, Forwards are listed as defenders, midfielders are listed as defenders, Redshirt goalie, etc.
    Last I looked 9 teams from the ACC(3 were TOP SEEDS) and were (those 3 made it to the College Cup) the other who won was from the PAC 12.
    Maybe if you paid attention to who the best players and best teams were you would understand the frustration with US Soccer.
    By the way Notre Dame didn't even finish in the Top 41 teams according to the NSCAA. Are you telling everyone that they have great players but maybe their Coach isn't very good because it doesn't look like their record this year is anything to write home about. http://www.nscaa.com/rankings/913/N...Poll?preview=5ebeb6065f64f2346dbb00ab789cf001

    Yes, I believe the BEST players are in the ACC and Pac 12.Not all but Most! They play the toughest competition and Win. If I'm starting a National Team I go there because they are experienced at playing at a High Level every game just like International Games.
  12. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

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    Give me a break. Playing every game in the ACC is like playing international games!?? I know the ACC is a bigtime conference when it comes to women's soccer and I respect the teams. But I don't drink ACC Kool-Aid.

    What does ND not having a good year this year have anything to do with one or two of their players making the U-23 squad? A year ago ND was National Champion. Tucker was instrumental on that Champion squad.

    I actually do pay attention to college soccer and I do watch a lot of games. Travel all the time to watch college soccer. I'm at Fetzer at least once a year to watch UNC and often more. And that's all the way from Chicago.

    Like I said, I have no problems with the kids Randy Waldrum chose in his first camp.

    Do you have a problem with Randy Waldrum being named U-23 coach. If you do then state what it is. Maybe you don't like him. Maybe you don't like Notre Dame. Whatever it is, don't say that these kids don't deserve to be on the team.

    Again. half of the kids on the roster are from ACC, Pac-12. Do you want more? According to you should it be maybe 75% or 100% ACC/Pac-12??
    Why even look at other schools?
  13. NeverHome

    NeverHome New Member

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    ACC, with P12 a close second with SEC, is clearly the best league imo so I agree with you there and have no issue with where kids come from in terms of school but where I think you might be missing something is in how young many of the ACC teams are and therefore many of their potential players are already at U20 level. Not really a reason for you to be critical of 23s roster, just a fact. For instance both Duke and WF were excellent but had very few seniors that made huge impacts. Additionally, several of the players on list from ACC schools are northern/midwestern and left Big East/Big Ten footprint for ACC so geographically it is more balanced than at first glance. Who says it needs to be anyway?

    As for the listing of players positionally; who cares? Zillions of examples of players at international level being converted.

    ND players listed are not debutantes and have been chosen at other levels before new coach (Waldrum) so that's a bit of a low blow (one year removed from national title ain't exactly a crummy team). I agree strongly with Waldrum's potential to find and use players who are best fit for next level not just college stars. You overplay your biased hand (whatever it is) by trashing ND and Waldrum. Look at the last decade and they'd stack up with anyone in the game.

    There are FIVE camps and i am sure the roster will vary from camp to camp. We'll all get on here and say who WE would bring in or leave but then again, WE are on a forum and not coaching the team, right? So what would be GREAT for US Soccer is support for the latest model and staff and less provincial whinging and moaning (IMO).

    Finally, which Big Ten player is getting shafted? Don't complain about who is there, advocate for someone you feel is being missed in the process.
  14. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

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    NeverHome, that was well put. I didn't stop to think that many of ACC/Pac-12 AND other college players are also/already on the U-20 squad.

    It may seem that I am overdefending Randy Waldrum and it may be so. But my experience has been through sports/soccer, living in the SouthEast and Chicago/Northwest Indiana area, that there is an unfounded hatred/dislike for Notre Dame and I can never put my finger on it.
    So it still puzzles me why there are people who don't miss a chance to say something negative about Notre Dame??
    Just my thoughts/opinions.
  15. DemitriMaximoffX

    DemitriMaximoffX Member

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    Wait, what? The SEC, a league that didn't send a single team to the third round of the NCAA Tournament, isn't remotely close to either the ACC or Pac-12 in quality. In fact, it's probably #7 so far, behind the other BCS conferences and the WCC.

    I wouldn't read too much into the first camp roster. It'll be who's on the team when they're actually playing in tournaments that tells us more.
  16. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

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    I hope obviously, I don't agree with Tokonta's initial post. I'm willing to trust that what he/she said at the outset, about only having given a "first glance" reaction, was true.

    But, I most certainly haven't seen evidence on BigSoccer about there being any "hatred/dislike" for Notre Dame. Try putting yourself in the shoes of a North Carolina fan and see how comments about UNC compare to comments about Notre Dame. Or a UCLA fan, for that matter. Even visit the Portland thread over in the College Women forum and see how one poster seems consumed by hatred/dislike of their team. Notre Dame generally gets a pass from that kind of vitriol.
  17. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

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    All I'm saying is give Coach Waldrum a chance. This isn't some off-the-wall hire.

    For those of you who may not know, Randy Waldrum's resume in a nutshell:

    http://www.und.com/sports/w-soccer/spec-rel/010912aaa.html

    Not bad at all.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but next to Coach Dorrance's record, that's the next most impressive one in women's college soccer as far as coaching.

    From everything I've read he's a student of the game. Always studying strategies, following the game both on the men and women's side, pro and am.

    Also, from talking to numerous parents and players over the years from ND they all say that he is a very nice guy and knows how to talk to players.

    This is his initial list of players. I'm sure other players are in the U-20 bracket.
    I'm sure there will be changes/additions to the roster as time goes.
  18. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    Who says it is? I think pretty much everyone other than the OP knows that. Take a deep breath, friend. Waldrum isn't under attack


    yet ;)
  19. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member

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    i know that criticizing is our forte here. but this is just empty.

    u20 and u23 players have been groomed to move up to the uswnt for years. without the amount of international and club football that the men play, the women just naturally move into and out of the senior team more slowly on the wnt side. but the setup has long been well coordinated.
  20. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

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    I agree completely. I've been watching the U23 group for a couple of years, and the staff has made a very strong effort to rotate players through and get a look at a very good number of them. This year's first camp's group appears to continue that approach. It's looked to me like the staff has been consciously coordinating with the "seniors" staff in order to let them know who they should look at next.

    There's also one factor I think some don't think about: for various reasons, players are not always available for particular camps. I think the camp rosters end up as a combination of who the staff wants for the particular camp and who's available at that particular time.
  21. gogogo

    gogogo Member

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    I think the original commenter (me) merely displayed some ignorance. The setup may be "well coordinated," but how relevant/important is U23 experience to making the full national team? The recent US Soccer press release re the appointment of Coach Waldrum said:

    "The role of the U-23s in the overall development of U.S. WNT players underwent some changes in 2009 with the start of Women’s Professional Soccer (WPS). Many of the players who were being kept active and in the mix for the full team by competing with the U-23s now had the opportunity to play in the league. Therefore, the U-23s generally focus on calling up a mix of professionals and college players in the early part of the year before turning attention to college-based players for the remainder of the spring and into the summer, as that time period falls during the heart of the WPS season."

    "Working along with WPS, the U-23s serve a vitally important role in helping bridge the large gap between college soccer and the national team."

    And maybe that's the answer - the U23s are just one part of the framework for "helping bridge the large gap between college soccer and the national team." Certainly the national team players seem much more identified with their WPS clubs or colleges than they do with their participation (or not) on the U23s.

    So I guess my point is - I hope Waldrum makes the U23 team more (or even more) relevant in the US Soccer world. Otherwise, why replace Coach Irwin - an elite coach? Did he get tired of it? Does US Soccer just believe that "change is good?" What new thing does Coach Waldrum - obviously another elite coach - bring to the table? And what are his plans for the U23s? Btw, I thought it was odd in the Waldrum press release that US Soccer didn't thank Irwin for his tenure as U23 coach. It should have.

    I didn't mean to imply that the U23 team itself has been badly run - Coach Irwin (based on my limited knowledge) was fair and broadminded in player selection and the team's match results have been good. I've been delighted over the years that some of my favorite players - like Kling of UNC and Wells of G'town - have done well for the U23s and have gotten shots with the National team. With the precarious state of the WPS, this may be an important time for the U23s in the future of US soccer and I hope Coach Waldrum makes the most of it.
  22. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member

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    i am on the other side of the room on this. i hope that weekly,tough, competitive games, (that's wps), will become more important in the development of our wnt players.

    i know wps is in a precarious position. i just hope that it survives and thrives.

    i have no desire for the u23 team and its occasional camps to become more important in the decision-making process. that would be a step backward.
  23. shlj

    shlj Member+

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    La Manga U23 tournament :

    26th February
    13.00 hrs. USA WU23 – Sweden WU23
    16.00 hrs. Norway WU23 – England WU23

    28th February
    13.00 hrs. England WU23 - USA WU23
    16.00 hrs. Sweden WU23 - Norway WU23

    1st March
    13.00 hrs. England WU23 – Sweden WU23
    16.00 hrs. Norway WU23 – USA WU23
  24. goaleemama

    goaleemama Member

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  25. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

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    Which player is that?

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