US-Honduras, the coaching and the subs (R)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

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    Yeah, Yallop got a hell of a lot more out of Alan Gordon than Bruce Arena ever did. And Donovan played hard for Yallop.

    God, the fact that I'm sitting here seriously wondering whether Frank Yallop could get more out of hte USMNT than its current coach is deeply disheartening.
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  2. GumbyG

    GumbyG Member

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    Our results under JK have been acceptable but the way they've been achieved has not given me the feeling that they were won through skill and tactical acumen. This kind of a loss is the kind we should get used to, and the Mexico win is the kind of win we should expect. I don't think it's particularly shocking that we lost to Honduras away in these conditions, but you'd have expected we would have done it because we were over committed to positive play, not that we were mired in a constant defensive nightmare, and were lucky to be one down at the death.

    I'm afraid I know how this fairy tale ends.
    [​IMG]
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  3. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    1. Subs, were way too early
    2. Team looks toothless on the road, how much was the heat, how much was the same thing we've seen under Klinsmann for road WCQ's?
    3. He needs to figure out something else up top. Jozy busted his ass today but again no service.
    4. Gonzalez starting was the wrong decision. I don't say this because of the last goal, it wasn't smart putting him there with a guy who's played mostly fullback for Stoke. Boca won't make it to 2014 but he was needed today. Gonzalez distribution was horrible.
  4. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator Staff Member

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    One other thing, it was mentioned that it was 84 degrees out. That is not THAT hot. I know the humidity was high but come on, if you can't handle low-mid 80s you shouldn't even be a professional athlete.
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  5. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator Staff Member

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    This guy gets it. People bashed Bradley but he understood what the US player pool is at a fundamental level. JK, I don't believe, has accepted that. The technical ability to play the way he wants just isn't there.
  6. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    Pretty much this. It's like a kid playing FIFA on XBOX and using the players who have the highest ratings, putting them out of position regardless if they fit.
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  7. xsosx

    xsosx Member

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    Is Howard throwing Klinsmann under the bus?

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  8. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator Staff Member

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    ABSOLUTELY! In ten years when we've had kids born and bred in this style coming up the pipeline then it'd be realistic to expect us to play and succeed. Right now, it's a bad fit for the players we have. Even the Hondurans played the way we wanted to play better than we did.
  9. Grumpy in LA

    Grumpy in LA Bringing It Since 1807™

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    "Okay, you let your assistant take you to the semis of a World Cup? You got canned at Bayern Munich before the season ended? You won a friendly in Italy? Yeah, so? You haven't done shit. Show me you can win a match in San Pedro Sula when it matters. Show me you can beat Mexico when their players are awake for the match. There's always another level."
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  10. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator Staff Member

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    If he's really smart then he'll stop f'n around with the top of the pyramid and get to fixing the grass roots to actually produce soccer players. Too much obsession with winning a World Cup and not enough interest in creating the talent that will get you there. Trust me, when we have 22 guys on clubs in the Champions League we'll be much closer to winning a WC. No REAL players, no WC.
  11. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    That's part of the problem. We don't have top talent, I don't understand relying so much on the fullbacks for support/width. Chandler played poorly and was dead tired very early in 2nd half.

    As for Kljestan out wide, we saw that last cycle and it didn't work, let alone on the left. Christ.
  12. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator Staff Member

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    If we were actually relevant in the big picture, they night care enough to pick his brain...... As is, they probably couldnt be bothered to pick up the phone...
  13. Kilmer17

    Kilmer17 Member

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    Klestjan played?
  14. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    That's pretty much what I've wondered all along. The people who said he was going to improve the youth system were wrong. And it's not his job, job is to maximize the senior team, qualify etc.

    What I wanted to know was if Klinsmann just said those things because he's giving people what they want to hear, or does he really believe that? So after watching him in qualifiers and now this road game, it makes you wonder if he actually believes his own words? A formation and style that does not fit the current American player well. And it's not club football/soccer so we can't go out and buy players that do. He's hammered away, but the pieces still don't fit.
  15. Heist

    Heist Member+

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    Starting lineup had two real risks in it: Williams and Gonzalez. I didn't particularly like either choice. Neither did well. Add in mistakes by quite a few others you expect more of and subs that seemed a bit early and you get a loss.
  16. bostonsoccermdl

    bostonsoccermdl Moderator Staff Member

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    This is why I think Klinsmann might be better suited in a more of a "bigger picture" developmental role type in the USSF, rather than an acutal coach...

    Something with a 5-10 year long term goal, rather than a 90 minute one...

    He has the right idea, we dont have the players to carry it out yet. Square pegs, round holes, yada yada...
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  17. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member

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    I actually didn't mind the timing of the subs. If we were playing for the point, I'd rather have 20-30 min of fresh legs keeping shape in defense than a 10 minute cameo.

    The problem was the Kljestan and Zusi subs did not make the team better. Johnson looked fine from a fitness perspective, and had just created a good chance that won a corner. He also offered one of the few speed threats on the counter. Kljestan looked confused in his role, and played poorly (Chalkboard had him losing possession from a tackle *7 times*.) Zusi for Jones in theory makes sense, as Zusi provides some more natural width that neither Jones nor Chandler supplied. However, Zusi had a poor outing, and didn't add anything. Edu for Williams was like-for-like in responsibility, and actually worked.

    I thought we did enough to get to 1-1 at half, but man, the lack of cohesion in defense was a constant problem; Honduras' lack of quality on the ball from the flanks prevented more chances.
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  18. UxSxAxfooty

    UxSxAxfooty Member+

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    We played Eddie Johnson at left midfield, Jermaine Jones at right midfield, and an almost completely inexperienced backline with on the road in WCQ.

    What the hell was Juergen thinking?
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  19. Mutiny RIP

    Mutiny RIP Member

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    Agree about the crap lineup and playing guys out of position. I also agree that who he substituted made little sense. However, I actually like when he substituted. Bob had an annoying habit of waiting way too long to sub. He would often bring guys in after 75 min or 80 min. When you insert someone that late into a game, they barely have a chance to get into the flow of the game before the final whistle blows.
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  20. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

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    Using all of your subs early puts you at risk of not having one when really needed (gassed, injured, card, etc). That didn't occur in this match, but most coaches will keep that last sub to see where it is most needed.
  21. Mutiny RIP

    Mutiny RIP Member

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    I actually agree with you about the third substitution, but I liked the timing of the first two subs.
  22. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

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    http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/02/06/klinsmann-loss-too-many-mistakes-too-many-areas

    “That was a lot of mistakes,” Klinsmann said. “We had problems closing down the passing lanes throughout the whole first half and the second half. Too many mistakes and too many players not playing up their potential.

    yes, it was, Jurgs, and some of them were made by you. Passing lanes are going to be a problem with 3 midfielders, no designated 6 and a newb central defender starting his first qualifier. Did you happen to notice how Omar and Cam looked like they had never played together before?

    What was your tactical plans headed into this qualifier? Scramble, knock the ball around the back and hope for the best?

    Any thoughts about coaching up to your potential (or maybe you are)? We used to punch above our weight, now we are not playing up to our potential. Isn't that the coach's job?
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  23. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    I think you missed my point. It's not that everybody's waiting to get the scoop on us. It's that he'll blame his failures on the US, our crappy talent, our backwater league, our nothing soccer culture, our weird little region, etc. And the rest of the world will be happy to gobble that up.
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  24. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    The irony is, the foreigner is the one saying US can play 'better' than what we have in the past. It's the Americans who are teh ones saying 'This is as good as we can play... if anything... we've actually played BETTER than we should!'
  25. moytoy12

    moytoy12 Member

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    Well said. Couldn't agree more.

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