US-Honduras, the coaching and the subs (R)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. moytoy12

    moytoy12 Member

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    I had the same thought. Completely incoherent. And I was gobsmacked by the lack of urgency in the final third. Slow and lazy. Were they stoned?[/quote]

    My brother and I just kept saying this same thing to each other. It was a mess out there.


  2. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    In a lot of cases I'd say you're right.
  3. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    I mean for as shitty as we feel right now as USMNT fans.... things will get bettter. If Landon decides to come back, or when Shea will regain his form/shape... we'd be in 10x better shape.
  4. moytoy12

    moytoy12 Member

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    I just don't see how anyone would think this is an effective way to lineup. I really am shocked by our lack of shape, awareness, and spacing.


  5. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

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    There's a lot that happened today that an in-form Landon would've smoothed over. Actually, any real decent attacking play on the wing, even in spurts, would've helped. Which is why I'm still shocked that his first sub was Kljestan for EJ. I don't rate EJ as a particularly great player, but his speed threat on the left was one of the few things attack-wise that was working. It seemed wrong then and hours later it still seems wrong.
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  6. moytoy12

    moytoy12 Member

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    Yep. This. Well said. I'm speechless about how disorganized/clueless we've looked out there.
  7. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    Completely agree. He didn't even seem to gassed....
  8. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

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    Jesus, I didn't see that quote until just now. This guy is going to lose the locker room.

    Klinsmann needs to take responsibility for what happens on that field. If he keeps tossing his players under the bus and acting like he's some sort of genius savior and our guys just done "want" it enough, it's going to get ugly.
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  9. Grogtank

    Grogtank Member

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    First I have to say that I highly doubt JK would smear the U.S. players, MLS, our lack of soccer culture, and CONCACAF. Saying such is a bit of a smear on Klinsmann. He has shown nothing that points to him being vindictive in that way.

    You're better than that.
  10. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

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    He's been smearing them while he's been the coach. Why would he stop when he's not?
  11. Grogtank

    Grogtank Member

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    Honestly I think he is partially right and by saying this he isn't passing responsibility to the players. He understands he is the coach and part of his job is getting the best from his players.

    Let's be honest here for a moment. Is he teaching our midfield how not to pass it to the other team? Is he teaching our players how to take a free kick without kicking it to the other team? Is he teaching our players how to take a switched ball without losing possession or getting called for a hand ball? How about our defenders, Is he teaching them how not to ball watch in critical moments?

    There were so many schoolyard mistakes in this game you cannot blame it all on Klinsmann. Sure part of his job is getting the best from players but this isn't a U18 camp. These mistakes go beyond the training focus of a team trying to qualify for a WC.

    Squad selection issues aside, pinning everything on JK is totally unfair.
  12. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

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    You don't blame a coach for physical mistakes, no. But it is his fault that he wasted a year and didn't address rebuilding the defense is now coming back to bite us at about the worst possible time. And honestly, even if he thinks that it's the players and not him, he should be smart enough to stop opening his damn mouth and putting his players on blast to the press. Our soccer press sucks, but at some point they're going to figure out that he's passing the buck to everyone except his assistants and himself.

    He's blasted Altidore, made weird comments about Donovan, and blasted Dempsey in a totally unprofessional-and given who he was talking about-unnecessary manner. There's a trend here, and its not a good one.
  13. Vios

    Vios Member

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    I could only watch about 20 minutes of the second half. I actually saw some nice U.S. ball movement in tight spaces...I did have the bad luck to witness the 2nd goal against U.S. - not what I would expect from a U.S. defense. Not too long ago you would expect to see the D-Mid at least enter the screen. Though the centerbacks plus Howard should have snuffed that out.

    Anyway, I am very nostalgic for fast wingers and wicked crosses. Ironically, I associate "whipping the ball in" with Germany. Why don't we see that style of play more often? No speedy players with a decent cross? I hadn't started watching the second half by the time Eddie Johnson was subbed off, but taking off a speedy players sounds like a terrible decision. The 20 minutes I saw lacked speed, urgency, grit and crossing.
  14. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator Staff Member

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    I just don't think it's realistic to expect players who:

    a) were not raised (youth, club, high school, college) playing possession style/positional soccer to take to it later in life—their brains are not wired

    and

    b) players who do not play a possession/positional style with their club to then go to the MNT camp and learn to play that way in a few weeks or training sessions
  15. Grogtank

    Grogtank Member

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    Jozy clearly upped his game after that period. His comments on Landon were just realistic. On Dempsey he was clearly pushing him because he thinks Dempsey could play at a higher level. That some of this was public is an error, I will agree with that. But let's not confuse tough love with mindlessness.
  16. StormTrooper

    StormTrooper Member

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    I am no soccer expert, but I don't think I've ever seen a formation like this employed before. Which is more likely: 1) Klinsmann is a genius who has devised a never-before-considered scheme that will give us an advantage, or 2) no coach would ever deploy such an approach because it is illogical and destined to fail?
  17. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

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    Jozy was playing very well for AZ, and after that stupid beef he played part of one game prior to tonight for JK, and looked better against Russia by virtue of us having an actual midfield on the field with him. The idea that someone JK's comments made Jozy start playing well is baffling.

    Realistic or not, you don't go out of your way to alienate a guy who's clearly not wired like a typical athlete. Stupid.

    And Clint of all people doesn't need Juergen Klinsmann telling him he needs to push himself. That's like me going to Ethiopia and saying "What you guys need is a sandwich; why don't you just go get a sandwich?"
  18. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator Staff Member

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    This is really the best way to sum up what is going on.

    We used to be shittier than our results led on, now we're better than our results lead on...

    hmmmm
  19. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

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    I don't like the "we just don't have the talent, nothing coach can do!"

    Couple reasons:

    1. Contradicts JK's statement about bringing attacking soccer (obv lie, feeding the media)

    2. Most of us have seen the US play better, and put in a better effort than this in qualifying. I'm telling you, this team lacks the fight for road CONCACAF games. Maybe they'll show it later on this round, but it's not there. We're capable of utilizing players better, and Klinsmann can call in better players suited for specific roles. He is taking the "best" guys which going by depth is our CM's and trying to play them out of position. I said in another thread it's like a kid playing FIFA 13 on XBOX; taking players with best ratings and cramming them into the XI and out position. Not working.

    Now when is the we don't have the talent argument acceptable? Well IMO in a World Cup vs. a team with more talent, skill. Not vs. CONCACAF teams. Right? No excuses in this round, just like Klinsmann himself said. I would be very disappointed if he continues to throw players under the bus after poor results. You are the coach, even if you're not trapping the ball, defending, etc. you are responsible. Paying him more money than any US coach ever, and he was expected to not only qualify but "change" things, whatever that means. No excuses.

    I saw that clip/short interview with Bob Ley of ESPN. Klinsmann didn't look like his happy self. Good, because it should hurt and maybe the light will come on. After the Guatemala game last year I was feeling more comfortable with him, but never been fully convinced.
  20. Craig P

    Craig P BigSoccer Supporter

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    It looks like a 4-3-3 to me.
  21. Grogtank

    Grogtank Member

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    I'm glad you agree somewhat that all of this can't be blamed on JK. The stupid mistakes were rampant. About this sports psychology stuff, lets just agree to disagree.
  22. Tony in Quakeland

    Tony in Quakeland Member+

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    Thanks. I was too exasperated to reply, but you covered it nicely.
  23. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator Staff Member

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    Nah, it was a 4-1-1-1-1-1-1 all the way down the middle of the field.
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  24. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Moderator Staff Member

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    :ROFLMAO:

    Analogy of the year.
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  25. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

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    No, I don't blame him at all for the physical mistakes in this particular match. But the big picture worries me far more than having 0 points after 1 game. I see potential trouble. Winning can paper over it, but I don't think this is going to end well.
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