1. Save 40-80% on great soccer jerseys. Shop today at BigSoccer Shop!

Post-match: USMNT vs Russia: Second Viewing Analysis

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Ironkick14, Nov 15, 2012.

Moderators: dark knight
  1. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    Back when Jones was still shooting for a spot with Germany, Loew went to the press and said Jones needs to calm down, be less hectic, and play more precisely. Loew never called him up again, and that description is as accurate today as it was 4 years ago.

    If you analyze Jones in a vacuum, he's OK. But consider the impact he has on his teammates. Chandler's cue to get up the sideline and add overlapping width is knowing he has defensive cover when he does. Instead, Jones is the one all over the place, and Chandler is forced to stay put more often. How is Gatt supposed to cue off of Jones? Or Gomez? Both had little impact on the right, and that's partly because of their "supporting" #8.

    Look, if people want to play Jones as he does with Schalke, awesome. Sit Bradley, put a more attacking midfielder in front of Jones, put a DMid behind him, and let Jones be a box to box animal. So, who wants to sit Bradley? Who wants to restrict Bradley's forward movement by making him a dual 8 with no supporting 6, or have Bradley play the 6 behind Jones?

    Or, you ask Jones to be the 6 he was at Blackburn, which requires he stops being all over the place.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.


  2. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Location:
    ----> Wisconsin <------
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Country:
    Montserrat
    Williams was the six last night.
     
  3. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    I'm well aware of that. Like I said, if people want to play Schalke's system, we leave Williams at the 6 and sit Bradley for a more attacking midfielder. You want to sit Bradley?
     
    kingshark repped this.
  4. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Location:
    ----> Wisconsin <------
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Country:
    Montserrat
    Why do you want to sit Bradley?

    Your critique of Jones mostly lists failing grades for attributes of the 6 position where he was not assigned to play yesterday.
     
    TheHoustonHoyaFan repped this.


  5. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    Weak.

    We disagree on the discipline required of an 8 in yesterday's formation. So be it.
     
  6. Ironkick14

    Ironkick14 Member+

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Country:
    United States
    Or just play Bradley in the more advanced role. He's plenty capable of it, and of the three midfielders we started yesterday he's the most likely to be able to alter his game to that extent.
     
  7. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    You want Bradley to be an AM to make room for Jones? OK. I think there are other alternatives that make the team better.
     
  8. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Location:
    ----> Wisconsin <------
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Country:
    Montserrat
    Do you know what's weak?

    Having two disconnected statements following each other in one sentence and then using a question to imply there is no other solution to a situation. In the first part of the sentence you claim that a way to play Jones is to put Bradley in front of Jones with a defensive mid behind him. Then in the second sentence you ask who wants to sit Bradley, despite the fact that in the first sentence you offered a solution to the situation that did include sitting Bradley. In fact the set up you suggested in the first sentence was close to what the team showed yesterday with Jones instead slightly ahead of Bradley. It worked quite well. That's why the assumptive question of who wants to sit Bradley is by far the weakest part.
     
    Statman repped this.
  9. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    Nope. Read again - I said IF you want to play Jones in the system he plays at Schalke, he needs to be in front of a 6 and behind a more attacking mid. That means sitting Bradley.

    If you don't want to sit Bradley, fine. We agree.



    So then you have to figure out what system you want to use. You think last night's was great. I don't, for the reasons I stated. We disagree. That's OK. I also don't think those two as dual #8's has worked.

    The one system I'd be supportive of is using Jones as a 6 behind Bradley. He'd have to outperform Williams, but I think he could. He'd just have to be more disciplined - play as he did for Blackburn.
     
    Mr Martin repped this.
  10. Ironkick14

    Ironkick14 Member+

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Country:
    United States
    Like? The only players in our pool that have more playmaking ability than Bradley are Dempsey and Donovan, and they are both better in other positions. Zusi is about the same level, Mix is not as good, Corona isn't ready yet. I don't see a better option without losing something somewhere else on the field. I could see this:
    Dempsey...............Jozy...................Zusi
    ........................Donovan........................
    ...............Jones..............Williams..........
    with Jones playing his Schalke role and Williams sitting in. But we lose quite a bit on the wings with that formation. We could play Gatt, and with Donovan there we could take full advantage of his speed. But then we lose the calmness that Zusi would bring if we had a lead. Which is why, IMO, this is still best:
    Dempsey..................Jozy......................Donovan
    .................Bradley................Jones......................
    ............................Williams.................................
     
    nbarbour repped this.
  11. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    Fair enough. You agree with RC.

    I don't think that's our best team.
     
  12. Ironkick14

    Ironkick14 Member+

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Country:
    United States
    That's fine. We don't have to agree. Who would be in your midfield on our best team?
     
  13. kingshark

    kingshark Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    I think Holden is the best fit if he is healthy, but it's unlucky.
    ------D-Will
    -Bradley--Holden
     
  14. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Location:
    ----> Wisconsin <------
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Country:
    Montserrat

    Your reason stated above:



    ... are a direct critique of an assignment that he was not given. A #6 is required to cover for the the advancing fullback.

    A #6 position does require him to stop being all over the place, but he was not assigned to be a #6 last night. Danny Williams was.


    Jones seemed quite capable of creating several very good scoring opportunities while playing advanced on the left side in the second half.
     
  15. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    Like I said, we disagree. In the 4-3-3 we used last night, the 8 and the wide attacker have to help support the wide area defensively if the full back goes forward. The 6 needs to anchor his central defenders.

    OK. What does that have to do with his job as an 8?
     
  16. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    I'd try Jones at the 6 behind Bradley. But the roles would be clearly defined and Jones would need to stay disciplined.

    I think the US is best when you have 4 attackers. So I want to see Dempsey, Donovan, Altidore, and Zusi in front of 2 central midfielders. I think that's our best team right now.

    And for the love of God, no Goodson.
     
    FirstStar repped this.
  17. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Location:
    ----> Wisconsin <------
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Country:
    Montserrat
    Read what you wrote in the quote right above it.
     
  18. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Location:
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Country:
    United States
    Not the scheme we play and quite frankly no team I know plays the 4-3-3 the way you describe it.

    In full attack the strong (ball) side F, #8, and FB are likely in the attack. In the event of a counter behind the advanced FB, the #6 slides over to cover the FB slot and the weak side FB slides over to provide defensive integration with the 2 CBs.
     
  19. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    Never mind. Not worth the discussion - agree to disagree.
     
  20. Nutmeg

    Nutmeg Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 1999
    I think Williams is going to be a very good 6. It's a position that requires time and experience, so he's going to have off games.

    Jones has played the 6 well in his career. Like I said, it's something worth trying.

    Bottom line, Jones+Bradley as 8s isn't a great combination. Good to have in some situations, but we've seen the team perform better recently with two central midfielders. One 6, one 8.
     
  21. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Location:
    ----> Wisconsin <------
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Country:
    Montserrat
    It would also help Williams not to commit a major gaffe 10 minutes into the game and throw him off mentally for the rest of it.
     
  22. Foolishness

    Foolishness Member+

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    a la Onyewu vs Brazil. He's young and seemed to be off his game for his entire duration. I don't know if it was the FK or something else but I'm sure things like that will get hammered out as he matures a bit more as a player.
     
  23. Real Corona

    Real Corona Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Location:
    ----> Wisconsin <------
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Country:
    Montserrat
    Just looking at his body language, both when he came off and at halftime, you could tell he just never got over that.
     
  24. Grogtank

    Grogtank Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Location:
    Vegas Baby
    Country:
    United States
    I personally wouldn't write off the Bradley+Jones pairing so quickly. Our wing play simply wasn't productive enough. You mentioned our wing play being unsupported as a reason why it was largely unproductive but consider Jones bombing forward as a reaction to our lack of wing play. I think the circumstances might back this up.

    Russia has been a very strong side lately. Playing them away was never going to be easy. We had the debut of a promising young winger with Gatt. For the wings to work the wingback has to have some understanding with the wide forward. Needless to say Chandler and Gatt have never played together. All of this leads to an unbalanced attack. A large portion of the creative burdon on the right fell on Jones' shoulders.
     
  25. Grogtank

    Grogtank Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Location:
    Vegas Baby
    Country:
    United States
    He will be fine. Klinsmann isn't the type to hammer a youngster and make things worse. I think he will be a beast for us. Less prone to getting caught in possession compared to Edu.
     
Moderators: dark knight

Share This Page