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What exactly qualifies Martin Vasquez?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by TheNearPost, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

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    Yes, I didn't put quotes around my paragraph, because I wasn't quoting anyone. Sorry if there was any confusion.


    Yes, I do believe it is very normal. But then you had better have a darn good assistant with some track record of training and building successful teams. Loew had such a track record, even if it wasn't legendary, but it was competantly professional for a decade. Vasquez has no such record at all, just one year of failure in the MLS. And wasn't the point behind hiring a foreign coach that we could do better than merely guys who won Championships in the mediocre MLS like Arena and Bradley? So, now our lead scout, trainer and tactical guy is a 1-year MLS failure?

    Yes, I'm glad you understand the fear.

    Very few posters are calling for Klinsi's head. The vast majority understand that he needs to be given more time. But there is that fear, and Vasquez is a big factor in that fear.
     
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  2. gmonn

    gmonn Member+

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    When you say, "nuts and bolts training coach," that's like the drill sergeant. Then you're making the leap of logic that the drill sergeant is doing the general's job, but doesn't have the resume to be general. But the drill sergeant isn't doing the general's job. He's being a drill sergeant.

    Are we really saying that Martin Vazquez isn't qualified to run training drills? :)
     
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  3. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    That is how you interpreted that article?

    "Vasquez takes a leading role scouting players to be called in", really? Does that include the European players?

    I love how you took Will Bruin's quote "We haven't split up too much into defense and offense, but when we have Jurgen's been with the forwards and Martin's been with the defenders and Andy goes back and forth." and turned it into "He is specifically the lead trainer for defensive organization".

    I love how you took Herzog's quote on Herzog's language deficiencies re running group drills instead preferring 1v1 instruction and turned it into "he handles more of the tactical group discussions due to his English language advantages". How does one change drills into "tactical group discussions"?

    Wow!
     
  4. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    The gap wouldn't have been nearly that big though. Bruce, Dom, Steve Nicol, even Kreis, a guy who tries to play proactive soccer at his club, would have been better options.
     


  5. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

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    http://www.soccerbyives.net/2010/10/vasquez-ousted-as-chivas-usa-head-coach-after-one-season.htmlMartin Vasquez took over as Chivas USA head coach expected to build on a tradition the team had for being a regular playoff participant under former coach Preki.

    Vasquez fell well short of that, and on Wednesday he paid for that with his job.

    Chivas USA parted ways with Vasquez on Wednesday, releasing him from his contract and leaving the former U.S. national team and Mexican national teamer with an 8-18-4 record in charge of the RojiBlancos.

    Certainly, he has loyal friends:
    http://www.womensoccer.com/refs/wusa_refs/wusa-spirit_14feb01.html

    http://www.soccerticketsonline.com/chivas-usa-fires-martin-vasquez/
    [It was about] results, at the end of the day. We had some tough results this year. I think we were better than our record. At the end of the day, we felt a change would help the organization, would help the team. I think we got together and really evaluated the season and it was a decision of the [club's] soccer committee that this was a decision that needed to be made in the best interests of the club to move the franchise forward.

    Results, hmmm, but maybe he is good at training players . . . .
     
  6. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

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    Precisely. That's exactly the worry. That Vasquez is a failed MLS coach being given way too large a role in training the US National Team. That's the whole point of this thread. There is some evidence that Vasquez plans and organizes the training, from Klinsi's own quotes. There is some evidence from Herzog's quotes that Vasquez has primary responsibility for defensive training and organization, and that Vasquez has more responsibility in explaining large group tactics, as opposed to 1v1 training.

    If my interpetation, if my worry, is wrong, then feel free to provide contrary evidence about Vasquez's lesser importance in training, or Vasquez's extensive prior success as a coach, or JK's leadership of training.

    Your amazement at these concerns does not qualify as serious analysis or evidence. ;)
     
  7. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Succinct and to the point. Very well done!
     
  8. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Thanks for taking the time to share your interpretation of those quotes. I get where you are coming from, there is nothing more to add.
     
  9. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

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    If some experienced, proven professional coach were planning and designing the training activities, and Vasquez was just putting down cones and running the drill that a proven coach had planned, then I'm sure he is qualified.

    But based on Vasquez's one year as a failed MLS coach, I'm not at all convinced he is qualified to plan and organize the training, in addition to being the drill sergeant. I'm not sure Vasquez is the guy who should be translating and effectuating JK's vision for the team.

    Plus, the analogy isn't quite right. If JK = Eisenhower, then Vasquez is playing the role of Patton. he isn't the drill sergeant, but the guy planning, implementing and carrying out the top General's plans.
     
  10. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    Marteen is always in the background with his little notepad taking down lunch and dinner orders. I can only think he does this job very well, because the 'suggested' in game changes were fairly awful.
     
  11. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    Personally, I think many posters are mad that a high paid foreigner hired a bunch of unknown foreigners to coach the USMNT.

    That's what it smells like to me.....

    And don't get me wrong, I think Kreis will be the next USMNT head coach.

    But comparing apples to apples, Loew is at the level we look at Vazquez when he came on as assistant to JK. Hell, look at JK. When he came on to coach germany... all he had behind him were some classes! Imagine us giving Jason Kreis the keys to our National team before he EVER had any coaching experience... it would be like that...but even worse because Germany are Germany... and we are who we are.
     
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  12. SweetLife

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    When he was planning for us to beat Mexico and Italy nobody was complaining then! Lose a few World cup qualifiers and some are calling for his head!:eek: Saying he is everything that is wrong with JK's tenure as coach! What a joke!:D
     
  13. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    If you were to take the article you quoted as a break down of how things work... It seems both Vazquez and Hertzog give their input about what they see from their 'core' of players, and how it all should work. It doesn't all fall on Vazquez; JK and Hertzog both are to be blamed also.

    I haven't questioned tactics, formations, personnel changes...and line ups since he took over this team... until Honduras. Terrible decision. I blame all 3, not just 1 coach. They all have input...but at the end of the day it's JK who churns that input including his own into what he shows us on the field.
     
  14. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    That would be Martin Vasquez, Andreas Hertzog, and Chris Woods right. For game changes are you talking about the halftime switch to a 4-1-3-2 with Deuce at LM, JJ at RM and EJ plus Jozy up top, or the later switch to a 4-1-3-2 with Sacha at LM, Zusi at RM and Deuce plus Jozy up top?
     
  15. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    nah man. you dont understand. Jogi is light years ahead of MartEEN in terms of day-to-day understanding of players, formations, tactics, scouting players, scouting other teams. You can't really compare them. One is world class, the other is simply an amateur with a badge on his chest.

    Jogi has been undone by a Spanish team that ranks up there in terms of team results and consistency. He has been undone by an Italy team that simply doesnt lose to Germany. That's it. His one obvious glaring flaw is his inability to bring in a player that does not match his metro-urbane-profile, but is required by this team. Once the home of the worlds dmids, Germany now has no proper enforcer in the midfield to intimidate. Sammy K is good, but he's not what the doctor ordered.


    He is a primping sort and his metrosexualness does grate on me, but he's in a completely different universe than Marteen.
     
  16. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    Hang the lot of them! It is clear JK is going nowhere.
     
  17. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Certainly a reasonable reader would conclude that Vasquez has scouting responsibilities for N, C, and S America and Herzog owns Europe.
     
  18. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    TheHoustonHoyaFan Member+

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    Fire up the guillotines!
     
  19. gmonn

    gmonn Member+

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    Guardiola's experience when he was hired to be manager of Barcelona was one season with the Barcelona reserves, a Spanish 3rd division team at the time. Apparently he wasn't qualified to run training drills as an assistant for the USMNT, let alone be manager of Barcelona.
     
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  20. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Then you need to get your nose checked because you couldn't be further from the truth. All I care about is the fact that the guy who is in a position that was quite crucial in Juergen's best stint as a coach ( and surely Sunil's reason for hiring him) gives us NO reason to believe that he is qualified at ALL.

    The simple fact is this, and I'm no longer just speaking to Bolivianfuego - Sunil Gulati hired Juergen Klinsmann for his vision, and for his work with the German national team. A good portion of Juergen's work with the German national team was accredited to the tactical mind that is Jogi Loew, his assistant coach, and a man who had at least a decent record in Europe. The man who is currently the assistant coach to Juergen Klinsmann for the U.S. national team has sketchy credentials. Moreover, his record with Klinsmann can be brought into question.

    That is SCARY. Not only does Vasquez not have the kind of experience or credentials, but there is a history of disappointment between these two working together.
     
  21. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    Perfect. Now that Pep is going to BM, we'll have 1 to 1 comparisons to make.
     
  22. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    It will be interesting. Pep's style of management is the complete opposite of Germany. It's all touchy feely... and we'll see how that goes down with Bayern. He's going to have a LOT more issues to deal with given the higher ups, the personalities, and just the difference between spain and germany society wise.
     
  23. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Vasquez was NEVER level with Loew. Ever. The guy went to a Europa League/European Cup Winners' Cup final. Vasquez couldn't even get Chivas to the playoffs after them having done so for four seasons in a row.
     
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  24. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

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    All I am saying is put in american coach, with american assistants... I am sure people wouldn't be as fired up as they are to oust the 'over paid' foreign coach with foreign assistants.

    I would even think, BS would be willing to give more slack to a FRESH to coaching jason kreis with ex teammates around him as his fresh assitants...
     
  25. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    nah, here you just dont understand Germans: they eat their own.

    JK was under the gun from day one...the mistake was realized too late by both manager and owner(s).
     
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