What's the best combination in the middle to add an offensive spark?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Eleven Bravo, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

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    We have often made many disputes against the empty bucket... now the empty bucket with a hole in it. But, what is the USMNT best formation that gives us the best combination of play in the middle. Where can we maximize our best players?

    What we had with Bradley:
    -----------FW-----FW-------------
    LAM----------------------------RAM
    ------------CM-----CM-------------
    LWB---------------------------RWB
    ------------CB------CB-------------

    We tried this, and it failed.
    ----------------------CF----------------------
    LM------------------CM-------------------RM
    --------------CDM----------CDM------------
    LB------------------------------------------RB
    -------------------CB-----CB-----------------

    Our Spain Formation:

    -----------------FW--------FW------------------
    LM--------------------------------------------RM
    -------------------CM----CM---------------------
    -------LB--------CB-------CB-----RB------------

    Klinsy's line-up of choice:
    -----------LF------------------RF---------------
    ---------------------WF--------------------------
    ---------------CM---------CM/CAM-------------
    ---------------------CDM------------------------
    LWB------------------------------------------RWB
    ---------------CB--------------CB-----------------

    Klinsy's 2nd line-up
    --------------------FW-------FW-------------------
    -------------LM--------CM--------RM-------------
    ------------------------CDM------------------------
    LWB-------------------------------------------RWB
    -------------------CB-------------CB---------------

    Other Option:
    --------------------FW----FW-----------------------
    ------------------------CAM-------------------------
    ---------------CDM-------------CDM---------------
    LWB----------------------------------------------RWB
    ----------------LB-------CB--------RB---------------

    Or:
    ---------------LF----------CF---------RF----------------
    ---------------------------CAM---------------------------
    ---------------------CDM-------CDM--------------------
    LWB--------------------------------------------------RWB
    -----------------------CB---------CB--------------------
    deuteronomy and IndividualEleven repped this.


  2. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

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    ---------------- Altidore
    Donovan ----- Dempsey ----- ???
    ---------------- Bradley
    --------------- Williams
    Johnson - ??? - Cameron - Cherundolo
  3. yankeeRoyal

    yankeeRoyal Member+

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    Formations don't matter. It is all about the personel.
  4. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

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    for me would be
    -------Dempsey-----------
    shea---Agudelo---Gatt
    ----Morales---Bradley

    Sure we lose a bit of speed at the point but Dempsey is the best poacher that we have had in years.
    Shea and Gatt are so fast that they are due to break their ceiling with crosses for Dempsey.
    Agudelo doesn't have forward speed but he is very quick and has good arsenal of moves, the only other young "10" that may be better is Aron J. but he is another story.
    I believe Morales is the best passer we have from the "6" position and works very well with a partner, just like he did for Porter, during the Canada game you could see that he actually looks for the killer pass and his defensive role is excellent, he also had a pin point pass in the TJ practice game and his peers think he was very impressive. Bradley plays even better when he starts a little further back.


  5. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

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    he needs to get games or leave Hertha to be considered a serious contender.
    Mr Martin repped this.
  6. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

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    Dempsey has shown that he doesn't do well as the target man when at spurs with more talent what makes you think he can do it for us. He has proven best under the forward/s.
  7. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

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    A 4-4-1-1 with a Y-shaped midfield.

    Starting XI:

    --------------------Altidore-----------------
    -------------------Dempsey-----------------
    ----Pontius--------------------Donovan---
    -------------------Bradley-------------------
    --------------------Edu----------------------

    Backups:

    ------------------Gomez--------------------
    -----------------Agudelo-------------------
    ---Shea------------------------------Gatt--
    -------------------Jones--------------------
    -----------------Williams-------------------

    Third String:

    -----------------Boyd--------------------
    ------------------Adu--------------------
    ---Feilhaber----------------Corona---
    ----------------Kljestan----------------
    ---------------Rico Clark--------------
  8. MI-Soccerfan

    MI-Soccerfan Member+

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    For me its this

    ----------------fw-----------------
    ----------------wf-----------------
    lm-------------cm-------------rm
    ----------------dm----------------

    1st String:
    -------------------Jozy-------------------
    ------------------Clint-------------------
    Shea-------------MB--------------Dono
    ------------------Edu---------------------


    The problem is we don't have Dono or Shea. For me the answers are Pontius and Gatt at this point and Zusi can back them up.
  9. FakeFlopper

    FakeFlopper Member

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    I know it's your third string, but if Adu ever plays that role on any squad for the US, I would only be comfortable having Jones as the enforcer behind him. I think that balances out Adu's lack of workrate on defense, and allows them to do what they do best.

    -----------------Dempsey----------------
    ------------------Adu--------------------
    ---F.Johnson----------------Donovan---
    ----------------Jones----------------

    I would love to see if this would actually do some damage.
  10. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    That can depend on the game, and the team. So in a way, that's correct :)

    As far as what's the best combination, I think we're really missing out on Diskerud. I feel like this kid is seriously one of the slicker players that we have on the ball in the pool, and could really do well in the advanced central midfield role that Jones plays. I'm not going to bet the farm on him, but I think he's a definite up and comer who could have a serious impact in this cycle if we give him a starting role.
  11. yankeeRoyal

    yankeeRoyal Member+

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    How can anyone claim that one formation is better than another, if there is no study or concrete evidence to support the thesis? Are we to just trust opinions? No thanks.
  12. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Whoa whoa WHOOAAA. slow down there, big guy! I'm on your side :) I'm saying that sometimes formations matter, and sometimes they don't. If it helps, don't think of it so much as formations. Think of it as the strategic exploitation of/protection against player positioning and movement through positioning and movement of your own.
  13. yankeeRoyal

    yankeeRoyal Member+

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    Though you go further than most, I don't think you go far enough. The "sometimes" you talk about is encouraging.....but the usual "positioning and movement" tells me you are still clinging to soccer's conventional wisdom, myth, and dogma.
  14. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    The more I think about 'creativity' in midfield the more I come to the opposite conclusion: Which LM or RM can we leave isolated and still count on to do the job defensively?

    The key for us is establishing a man advantage with dempsey on either the left or right attacking 3rd. This puts an enormous amount of pressure on the other side of the pitch.

    This also means I am pretty much giving up on using the wings. Why? Because neither shea, gatt, zusi or EJ are capable. Which means we need to work on quick internal passing punctuated by darting runs into the box. That means Dempsey + soccer player need to combine to put runners through. It is the 3rd pass that kills.

    -------------------Boca-------Gonzo----------------
    Cameron----------------------------------------FJ-----------
    -----------------------------Edu------------------------------
    -------------------Bradley-----------------------------------
    Jones-------------Dempsey---------------------Beasley------
    -----------------Altidore/Gomez---------------------------------------


    Subs: Adu/Benny for Jones, swaps with Dempsey, Shea for Beasley, 1 for 1 swap.

    Morphs into:

    -------------------Boca-------Gonzo----------------
    Cameron----------------------------------------FJ-----------
    -----------------------------Edu------------------------------
    -------------------Bradley-----------------------Shea------------
    --------Dempsey----------Adu-------------------------------------
    ----------------------Altidore/Gomez---------------------------------

    I am assuming that beasley and Shea, along with FJ can handle the left side with Edu helping.

    We can switch dempsey to the left and overload that area as well, but only if Donovan is in camp.
  15. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Are you gonna sit there and tell me that player positioning and movement do not affect the game at all? These things are vital to soccer strategy.
  16. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

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    Like Mr. Martin, a 4-4-1-1.

    -------------Altidore-------------
    -------------Dempsey-------------
    --???-------------------------???--
    -------Kljestan-----Bradley-------

    ? is due to the absences from the team. Out of the players selected for the match last week, I would have filled those spots with Zusi on the right, and reluctantly Jones on the left.
  17. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti BigSoccer Supporter

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    Without tactics, Sweden would have never tied Germany and USA would have never tied Slovenia in 2010.




    :p
  18. yankeeRoyal

    yankeeRoyal Member+

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    It is difficult for me to criticize anyone who puts Adu on the field, and this much thought into a post.......but here goes. :)

    Even if we grant that your analysis is dead on, your stategy seems to be formulated in a vacumn. Does this lineup work against Germany and Brasil (for example) or just Germany?
  19. yankeeRoyal

    yankeeRoyal Member+

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    The formations of Sweden and the USA (and Germany and Slovenia) were presumably important as well? chortle
  20. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti BigSoccer Supporter

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    Well, yeah.
  21. yankeeRoyal

    yankeeRoyal Member+

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    So, can you explain how the stategy, tactics and formations were responsible for the good results by Sweden and the USA, while simultaneously explaining how the stategy, tactics, and formations of Slovenia and Germany were faulty? Can anyone? I doubt it.
  22. yankeeRoyal

    yankeeRoyal Member+

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    Positioning and movement are fluid and any strategy which pretends that the game can be diagrammed prior to kickoff is simply perpetuating a hoary soccer myth.
  23. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

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    this was the formation JK was brought in to implement: quick passing, attacking football. it does not lend itself to possession. It lends itself to extremely high pressure and attack. Not unlike what Bob was trying to do towards the end, but Edu is a solid dmid. No fancy pants pulley CM tandem.
  24. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    I can give it a shot.

    The tieing goal from the U.S. was due to a great tactical switch by Bob Bradley. He switched to a 3-5-2 briefly when he brought on Herculez Gomez for Oguchi Onyewu. Donovan and Feilhaber were wide, and Bocanegra, DeMerit and Cherundolo made up the back three from left to right. This countered Slovenia's 442 very well because we had two forwards on their two centerbacks, which spread the center of their defense perfectly for Michael Bradley to charge right into. Earlier though, we saw Altidore dragging the centerbacks out of position well in a 4-1-3-1-1ish shape. This was key, because it made space in the defense for Donovan to have time to fire his laser home.

    Obviously things are flexible, but formations are key, at times.
    olephill2 repped this.
  25. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

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    Like I said, some matches are easily predictable due to formations and positioning and player movement. Some are not. Not every team is as fluid as Spain. Not every team is as rigid as England.

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