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When to change clubs?

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by Megagol18, Mar 19, 2012.

Moderators: bigredfutbol
  1. Megagol18

    Megagol18 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I currently have my son playing club,and I have been wrestling with some things that happend when he plays/dont play. First is the coach says its not about winning but when its the finals in a tournamant my son sits on the bench, I thought you learn by playing right? Second we notice he needs help in some things we let the coach know his answer is " I think he is doing a good job". If Im paying for club I think I should get more for what Im paying for. Any sugetions I would appreciate it, ohh and he is only U11.:eek:
     


  2. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    "First is the coach says its not about winning but when its the finals in a tournamant my son sits on the bench, I thought you learn by playing right?"

    Well it is about learning and trying to win at the same time. You can do both. One does not have to be seperate one from the other. In fact the more they learn the easier it is for them to win.

    Tournaments are different. Tournaments are thought of either as a vacation for teams that have no chance to win or something that your in it to win it.

    That is why even if your team is good. They take guest players to help them win. Our teams did that. That is why we train for two months before a big tournament and those guest players are training with the team during those two months. So our guys will feel like the guest players are truly part of our team and not strangers.

    Did your son sit the whole game or just part of the game? If he sat the whole game. He needs a new coach because that coach should be able to trust your son after he has been to most of his training sessions. You would only sit a player for the whole match who you don't trust or is fatigued or in injured or has bookings against him..

    ---------------------
    "Second we notice he needs help in some things we let the coach know his answer is " I think he is doing a good job". If Im paying for club I think I should get more for what Im paying for. Any sugetions I would appreciate it, ohh and he is only U11"

    Saying what that coach said to you doen't answer your question to him. He should give honest answers to your son and you about his game. Even if those answers might not be what you wanted to hear.How else is he going to get better?

    The goal of the player should be to be a starter. The goal of the substitue is to become a starter. The goal of the coach is to create starters. The goal of the coach is also to make the non starter believe it is not who starts the game that is important. But who he trusts to finish the game that is important until he can become a starter.

    A coach should not take a players that he doesn't beieve can be come a starter with training.
     
    momof2soccerkids repped this.
  3. Megagol18

    Megagol18 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He played maybee 10 minutes in that final, and no the team did not have guest players, the team tries to keep the same players all the time.
     
  4. SheHateMe

    SheHateMe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Country:
    United States
    He should be glad to have gotten the time he did. He has to earn time in those situations. I've seen guys on my son's team sit on the bench the entire game in State Cup matches. Imagine as a parent driving 90 minutes to see your kid spend the entire game on the bench.. gotta be tough. No coach owes playing time to the whole roster in some key situations.. that's where the club/team comes first. Grass isn't always greener either.. best for the player to learn what they need to do to earn more trust on the field and keep working.
     


  5. bluechicago

    bluechicago Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Country:
    United States
    Run like hell from this team. I don't know how the previous posters can say that this is OK. At U11 he should be playing a lot more than 10 minutes, there is nothing at that age more important than development, especially not winning. To me it sounds like your son is just filler (read $$$) that the club is taking advantage of. Go find a club where he can develop and play.
     
    momof2soccerkids repped this.
  6. Megagol18

    Megagol18 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Trust me I get it he has to work to play but im also looking at it from a parent and a devolopmental, but when you see your kid crying on the bench it gets you...And he is only U11.
     
  7. Megagol18

    Megagol18 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Thats exactly how I feel Blue, and Im the team manager and sometimes feel thats one of the only reasons he keeps him on the team plus$$. I want my kid to love the game not hate it.
     
  8. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Location:
    Illinois
    This ^

    Plenty of coaches and clubs out there that focus on development.

    The fact that this is happening at this age is sickening!

    Good luck.
     
    momof2soccerkids repped this.
  9. uvahoos

    uvahoos Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    YES RUN RUN RUN- I don't have a clear feel for at what age playing time needs to be earned thru training, hard work and talent but at least at U12 and below a team should only have so many kids on the roster as will allow all the kids to play 50% of the time.

    Personally, I think at every level if US Soccer required all teams to play every player 50% of every game from say U17 down, player development becomes essential to winning. If you don't want to play 18 players in a game, then that club can decide t0 roster fewer to meet the 50% requirement.
     
    momof2soccerkids repped this.
  10. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    First of all there is a difference between club soccer and rec soccer. Your are not guaranteed a lot of playing time in club soccer. Even in AYSO where everybody plays your are guaranteed only a half a match.

    When I get a new player on my youth team. They are all good players. But he is new to the team. The training is the same for everyone. We play the same amount of friendly games as we play league games. We also play in tournament games.

    I average out the total minutes so every player sees a lot of playing time. But the new players to the team sees most of his minutes in Friendly games and not league or tournament games.

    When I do put a new player in league games. Iplay hium with my most experienced players. Mainly because I want to give the new player every chance to look good. To help his confidence and to still try to win the match.

    I don't book friendly games with weak teams.

    To see these minutes players have to show up for practices and work hard in those practices.

    Again club soccer is not for every player. If your comming to club from a rec team. You should be a dominate rec player. Even with that it would take most players a half a season with club before they are ready to play in a league game. AT LEAST WITH OUR CLUB.
     
  11. uvahoos

    uvahoos Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    THIS IS COMPLETE B.S.- what do you manage a Premier League team? If a player is good enough to be on your club roster, then he should be good enough to play in a game- soccer is not rocket science, you are not asking these new kids to start nuclear reactions. I am afraid to ask what age group you are coaching.
     
    momof2soccerkids repped this.
  12. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Location:
    Illinois
    I sort of agree... If you have to bench a player for the majority of the game then you should give the parents their money back and tell them you made a mistake in accepting their kid on the team/club - period.

    Coaches fault IMO. That's what evaluations/try outs are for.
     
    momof2soccerkids repped this.
  13. Megagol18

    Megagol18 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Exactly if he is not good enough let me know, im paying for what? Or put him on the B team so he can play and not be on the bench for the most of the game. Nicklaino I respect your way to look at it as a coach but I see it different.
     
  14. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He does in friendly games. But what do I know I have only been coaching since 1970 while I was stiull a player.
     
  15. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    That is the point. That is why you should not charge a player to play. The club should have enough donors so the club does not have to charge the player anything or very little.

    In an established club and that was the only clubs I coached except my own. We don't charge player to play. The parents don't feel their own the club because of that. But what we do tell the parent is we actually care about the player and about the players game.
     
  16. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Location:
    Illinois
    You may be missing the point. Your job is to identify talent (try out) and then develop. Any kid that's there and tries - that a coach accepted should play n the field - maybe not as much as your top 3-4 players but just as much as the rest.

    And quite frankly it's pretty simple to include a lower skill set player on any team by placing your top players in the appropriate positions.

    Good well-rounded players can hide even rec players on solid club teams. I saw that on my daughters team which was an A division team for the Magic a few years ago. Those lower skill set players learned a good deal and moved up quickly.
     
    nicklaino repped this.
  17. uvahoos

    uvahoos Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    So since 1970 hundreds of kids have had to watch entire games from the bench because they were not deemed good enough by you to have the privilege of playing in a soccer game. You certainly can't engrave that kind of record on any trophy.
     
  18. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    IN NYC in the 1970 they did not make everyone who wanted to coach a coach back then. You had to be a current player and you had to play at a fairly high level.

    Can you tell me a little about your football back ground. Maybe I should have more respect for your opionions then I do at this time.
     
  19. Isaidthat

    Isaidthat Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    If you have to ask the question...it's time.
     
  20. Counterattack23

    Counterattack23 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2011
    I had the same exact situation with my son last year at U11. We moved clubs this year (U12) and the development has been amazing. He is playing on a better team in a higher division and near the end of the fall season and through the winter season has cracked the starting line-up after sitting 90% of most games last year for his old club.

    It was not only playing time that is improving his skill level but the training sessions are so much better. Do your diligence and find a club that will allow him to play and never look back. Good luck.
     
  21. SheHateMe

    SheHateMe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Country:
    United States
    Some of you people are crazy if you think every kid deserves equal playing time in a tournament or single elimination State Cup. Some kids have been with clubs for years and should probably be cut, but they're kept around and the parents keep paying, but that doesn't mean they should see a lot of action in critical games where they hurt the team. Not saying that's the case here, but come on. How many kids sitting on benches in college basketball and never see the floor? You've got 30 kids on college rosters and some rarely see the field except from the bench. If you don't play you either learn to play at a the level you need to or you sit. Its not pay to play for some clubs like so many entitlement mentality parents think. You earn your time, even at middle school levels unless you want kids to feel entitled. Some of this stuff makes me sick.
     
  22. Megagol18

    Megagol18 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    So there is two things I see, one thing is lets win and worry about winning, second is play let them learn on the field and who cares about winning lets help these kids grow. My kid is 10 I dont care about wins and losses at this stage I need to have him devolope and if that means losing or making a critical mistake thats when he will learn and thats when he gets subed out. Like I said in the begining of the post coach has told me its not about winning. No its not pay to play but its made out to be pay to learn and grow is what I have been told.
     
  23. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You have the right to change clubs if he is unhappy. They will give you a release, and maybe even a refund or part of a refund so he can play for another club. I must ask you this is he unhappy or is it just you the parent that is unhappy. Maybe both of you are unhappy.

    I am not taking sides with his coach. I think the answer that he gave you when you asked on what should he work on was not good one. Plus if he has been training with the team for a long time. He should not be afraid to put any player in the game.

    So take your time and look for another club to play on. Watch them practice ask the parents of the kids on the persepective club. How they feel about their coach.

    If it is good sign him up and I hope your are all happy with your decision.

    I will give you a little clue on what to look for besides how to run a practice.

    Can you see that the coach loves the game and loves his players. Does he wear his love of game on his sleave so everyone can see it and hear it. When he see's something that he likes concerning his players. Does he say it out loud so every one can hear it. If the players see something great that another player did in a game. Do they say it out loud as well? Because if the coach does that it is contagious to the team in general.

    I wish you and your son the best of luck.
     
  24. Megagol18

    Megagol18 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Thanks to all the comments on what should I do, because at the end its about playing and learning the wonderfull game of futbol (soccer). I will see how this spring goes and if it continues downhill well I will look elsewhere, dont fall in love with a club. Nicklaino thats great advice on the coach part I will look for that as well do personal research if it comes down to leaving.
     
  25. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    The way the situation is presented it looks bad - an U11 boy playing only 10 minutes, even though it's a final game.

    But from experience I know that there are three sides to every story. In this case, the parent's side, the coach's side and the truth.

    Let me start by saying or actually clearing up one big common misconception. Parents do not pay a club fee for playing time. Playing time should be earned through attendance, commitment, effort and performance. Playing time is reflection and extension (yes, at the same time) of those things. Obviously the younger the player the more playing opportunities he or she should be given. If and when parents pay equal club fee, there is no way that every kid gets equal playing time.

    I have a lot of questions to the OP:

    1. Are you sure his playing time was only 10 minutes (parents tend to exaggerate)? How long was the game?
    2. Did this happen only in this one game (the final)?
    3. How many players are on the team roster and what format does the team play in (7v7, 8v8, 9v9, etc)?
    4. How much playing time the other bench players get?
    5. Does your son get the least amount of playing time? Every game, usually, occasionally, or in just this one game?

    I'm sorry but your description of the situation is too vague to give advice. Others have jumped too quickly with their advices and suggestions. Experience makes me suspect that there is more to the story. But I will be honest. The alarming thing to me is the response of the coach when you bring to his attention your concerns about your son's development. However, it is possible that the coach thinks your son is developing well in general, but he just didn't play well in that particular game.
     
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