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When to introduce tactics of passing back to goalie as an option?

Discussion in 'Coach' started by Rob55, Mar 8, 2012.

Moderators: elessar78
  1. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Just wondering where the skill level (age?) needs to be for the goalie and players on the pitch to use the option of passing the ball from defense or midfield back to the goalie and then reseting and working the ball out from the back? I really haven't seen any of our U14 boys or girls teams (or competitors) execute a pass to the goalie in a game situation yet, but I really wanted to try to encourage it as an option to advance them to higher level of play. I'm just not sure if my team U14 lower skilled girls team is ready for that option yet. The concept might be way over their head. There are only a few on the team that know how to work a ball to space or pass an other direction but forward (see prior post on that issue).
     


  2. SoCalCJax3

    SoCalCJax3 New Member

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    Apr 22, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
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    I introduced it to my U12 boys last season (AYSO Fall). A few of my players actually got it--that is passing backward to relieve pressure and open up the field--our first string GK got it and was an awesome support. Unfortunately, because he got it, i forgot to introduce it during practice to the second GK (he wasn't at the next practice), the defenders passed it back and my GK picked it up. Oops. :eek: My bad. :D

    We used a lot of non-directional SSG in practice, and I explained to the boys that sometimes a pass back is the best action. They didn't always do it, but when they did it was effective about half the time, and we never gave away a cheap goal because of it.
     
  3. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator Staff Member

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    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    As soon as possible. If they can pass, then they can pass back to the gk.

    They need to learn that the gk is ALSO a field player as early as possible. Yes, it can be dangerous if done at the wrong time. Yes, it will cost you a few goals.

    It's important for them to learn when it is safe to pass back to the keeper. How often do we see young gks planted on their line in the center of the goal even when WE have the ball? Young gks need to learn to come to receive a pass just like any player.

    This is part of the rationale for when training young kids in a 4v4 SSG, the back player can play as a "sweeper/keeper". A few years down the road, the sweeper/keeper becomes an integral piece in neutralizing kick ball teams.
     
  4. striker2019

    striker2019 Member

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    Sep 27, 2006
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    DC United
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    United States
    Pretty much what el said. My U9 girls do it and I actively encourage it (when it's the correct option) during games and training scrimmages.

    Of course if your kids can't pass the ball consistently, then why worry about specific tactical applications like playing back to the keeper? Just get them to play the ball with consistency and first touch, support play, etc. going on a bit. Once they can keep possession a bit they can more effectively utilize the keeper to help maintain it. Before that and you're probably wasting training time.
     


  5. Twenty26Six

    Twenty26Six Feeling Sheepish...

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    Liverpool FC
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    As soon as their is a goalkeeper. They need to be treated like a field player.

    And, if you're scared to give up a goal, you need to reevaluate why and who you coach.
     
  6. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

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    Feb 14, 2012
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
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    Manchester United FC
    When you start practicing the back pass in general if you play with a keeper..

    The keeper is just another back pass option. But this is key when you do back pass to the keeper. They can't do it like a machine. They have to look where the keeper is when they back pass to him The keeper has to position himself so he is not directly in front of the goal when he gets the back pass. So if he misses the ball for whatever reason he gives up a corner and not a goal. The player who is doing the back pass has to be aware of that.

    That is also the time for the keeper to distribute to the other side of the field from where he got that back pass from if he got it from a flank. He passes to the opposite flank. So he got the ball from a pressure area and distributed the ball to a less pressure area. But he can't do that like a machine either. He looks then opens up his body position to make the touch with the far foot and then distributes.

    Then your backs will have more confidence that they will not lose the ball under pressure. Because they can always back pass to the keeper. Teach them that feeling from the beginning.

    What I would not do is have your mids back pass to your keeper. There are other options they can back pass to. The backs should have some debt between them. Helps make mistakes less likely to lead to goals when pressured.
     
  7. ranova

    ranova Member

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    Aug 30, 2006
    Players will naturally pass back to the keeper unless someone has trained them not to.
     
  8. GAZZA821

    GAZZA821 Member

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    Apr 6, 2011
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    We don't have goalies at U8, but we constantly pass backwards to our supporting players. Our U10's pass back to the goalkeeper quite frequently.
     
  9. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

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    Brooklyn, NY
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    That's right it is the coach that will tell them not to do that because he the coach is afraid of the player losing the ball. That is why the coach is an amature.
     
  10. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

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    Brooklyn, NY
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    What is the reason why they are passing back? Is it the support players communication to the dribbler to pass back? If it is it is very important for the support player to know when to ask for the ball back, and when not to ask for the ball back.

    there ae 2 reasons to do it.

    The first is the dribbler is in trouble. He is under real pressure and can lose the ball.

    Second the support player sees a good pass option that the dribbler can not see or can not get the ball to.Those options could be seeing the second or the third diagonal run of a team mate. The first diagonal run the dribbler can see if he is not under pressure.

    When is asking for a back pass a bad move. When the dribbler is not under pressure. Let the dribbler have the freedom to be inventive when he has the ball. The support player should never ask for the ball when the dribbler is not under great pressure. The dribbler should have the freedom to be great.

    So if you as the coach see the dribbler back pass when he is not under a lot of pressure. Ask yourself why did he back pass at that particular moment. Is it lack of confidence to try things when he has the ball or was it bad communication by his back support player.
     
  11. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

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    Nov 20, 2011
    I think every youth coach and game that I've seen at Ulittles through U12 and even U14 (I don't see top level club in my area) the majority of the time has taught defenders to try best to keep the ball/work it to the sideline until additional defensive support can get back to help. The thought process is that its just too risky and dangerous to kick a ball into the goal box. Footskils aren't there and the fields are bumpy and choppy and its likely the ball will bounce right over a foot. I have some very technically skilled defenders on my team with about 4+ years of playing experience. Footskills still need a ton of work but it will take some "rewiring" and some practice to get my 2-3 goalies and also any playing as a defender to start thinking to look to push a ball over/back to the goalie when under pressure. I think nicklaino had some really key points about encouraging "no pass" when "no pressure". That will let the goalies improve their communications as to when to demand the pass or tell the defender to keep it and work it upfield on dribble. The other key point is for the goalie to be at an angle to receive the pass where if an error occurs (whether a bad pass or fumbled first touch by goalie) won't result in ball going into goal. Good info. from all! Thanks for the advice so far. I think there are some basics that can be applied here that even my lower skill U14 girls I can implement with some practice and discussion.
     
  12. ranova

    ranova Member

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    Aug 30, 2006
    You are on the right track. Age and level of play are not the only factors. You have to figure in what you are trying to teach about team tactics and the system of play that you are using.

    First off if you have U-Littles and SSG's you are probably trying to teach a system of diagonal support. By definition diagonal passes are going to be forward or backward, discouraging vertical or square passes. So in this context you encourage diagonal passes behind and in front of the first attacker. A sweeper-keeper would be supporting the backs diagonally so that her play is just an extension of the lesson for all players. This same process can be used with your teens playing 6v6 with keepers. You replicate 2 CBs and a DM working with the keeper. While the two other players can drop back on the flanks like FBs.

    Second you can incorporate the keeper into exercises with the back line switching the ball from one side of the field to the other. You can play keep-away also with the backline maintaining possession while under pressure. The defense scores points on small goals on the flanks toward the half line. The pressing side can score points the regular way by winning the ball and putting it in the net.

    Your system of play is a concern too though. If you want your team to press high and stay compact, then you may not want the keeper to come out and play as a sweeper until the back line is closer to the goal and/or has possession of the ball. When the keeper should come out versus stay near her line makes a nice tactical decision addition to exercises you may want to run on transition play. A keeper comes off her line while out of possession for a different reason than when her team is in possession. One is to cover the space behind the back line as a sweeper. The other is to support the back line by giving another passing option.

    There are probably a lot of ways you can get your message across. Probably the most effective way is simply to plan your training activities to include an active role for the keepers. Either assign your keepers to CB and CM positions during training or treat the keeper position as a third CB (or sweeper) who happens to also be able to use her hands inside the penalty area.
     
  13. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

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    Nov 20, 2011
    Simply put, I'm trying to retrain many of them and teach them basics of how to play soccer the way its played at higher levels (and should be played). Alot of them have been taught strategies and tactics to win/not lose games but actually has been stiffling their soccer development.

    Another retraining exercise similar to the goalie pass option that I need to fix, is throw-ins. Historically, most boys/girls at younger ages are taught to only consider heaving the ball down the sideline towards the direction of the goal to score. Why? Because in the objective of "winning the game" its the safest thing to do in the younger age groups so the other teams "star" doesn't incercept the ball and put it in our net instantly. Which does occur alot at younger age groups. In 11 v 11 that is very rare, unless you do a blunder down inside the 18 with a throw-in. I want to retrain them find open player regardless of direction on pitch or "check back" and give it back to the person throwing it in as an option as well. I've got lots of re-training to do.
     
  14. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator Staff Member

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    My explanation for this is that too many U-little coaches create too many special situations. Then they strategize within these special situations to gain an attacking advantage.

    But let's look to the Laws of the Game, a throw-in falls under the concept of a REstart. Meaning to start playing again. Specifically, we start playing soccer again. We don't play a game called "throw-in". And it's not a unique situation, at least it shouldn't be treated as such, we have a player with the ball (to me it's irrelevant that he has the ball in his hands) and what do we do to support a player on the ball? It's all the same ideas.

    And the other thing is that we dilly-dally retrieving the ball, setting it up, and getting it in play. Do it quickly.
     
  15. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator Staff Member

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    My explanation for this is that too many U-little coaches create too many special situations. Then they strategize within these special situations to gain an attacking advantage.

    But let's look to the Laws of the Game, a throw-in falls under the concept of a REstart. Meaning to start playing again. Specifically, we start playing soccer again. We don't play a game called "throw-in". And it's not a unique situation, at least it shouldn't be treated as such, we have a player with the ball (to me it's irrelevant that he has the ball in his hands) and what do we do to support a player on the ball? It's all the same ideas.

    And the other thing is that we dilly-dally retrieving the ball, setting it up, and getting it in play. Do it quickly.
     
  16. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

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    Nov 20, 2011
    Good points! What you've said simplifies the game for the girls into learning the basics of playing strategy and not get their heads swimming with all kinds of situational rules the coach instructs to them. Again, I think the problem goes back to the reality that many U-little coaches have the primary focus to try to win and/or put their teams in specific situations to not lose. In doing so, they create all of these special instructions for each situation to gain either offensive advantages and also being risk adverse on not giving up goals due to lack of footskill by their own players.
     
  17. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

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    Manchester United FC
    Here is how most new young teams use the throw in. Ball goes off touch by the opponent. Get it in fast and throw up the field near the touchline. Hopeing an opponent knocks it off the field and you get to do it again. That is how they use it to move the ball up the field. :)

    As elessar78 said I think of a throw in only as a restart. I don't think of it as an offensive attack.

    I just want us to get the ball in play and control the ball. You can do some things off the throw in. Near the throw in you have congested space. Use the throw in to switch the field. So the ball is now in less congested space. So don't be afraid of puting the throw in the back space. Then switch the field from that for example.
     
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