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Where does Magico Gonzalez rank in the worlds best?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by AguiluchoMerengue, Jan 3, 2012.

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  1. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    By many just as great as Maradona and Pele, never won anything "important."

    Beat Barcelona with Cadiz, Beat Mexico with El Salvador, beaten up by Argentinian defenders the Argentina of Maradona in Spain 82, one of La Ligas best goals of all time againts Barcelona.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOXdYmVcs-0"]How good was Jorge El Magico Gonzalez? - YouTube[/ame]

    Here is another video of him "stealing" the show playing with Maradona at Barcelona, the Barcelona of Menotti, this game was in New York againts a Brazilian team.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2euX7kczwdY&feature=related"]Magico Gonzalez robandole el show a Maradona - YouTube[/ame]

    He was not in Peles top 100 players but yes in Maradonas top 10?????
     


  2. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

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    Some consider him as great as Maradona and Pele?? Including that is just asking to not be taken seriously.

    Anyway, I would have put him in the Top 125 living greats if I was Pele. An incredible talent.

    Reminds me of an early Alvaro Recoba. Unbelievable but underachieving.
     
  3. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    Not even once among the Top 50 best rated players in La Liga when it was like the third - fifth best league in Europe.


    That should answer your question.

    EDIT: Oh sorry! He was 50th once actually.
     
  4. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    the spanish fans that saw him playing would make those comparisons, as the describes Jorges game as "magical."


    he did put El Salvador to a world cup which is not that big of a deal to you, but El Salvador hasnt been in the world cup since Spain 82.

    Menotti took him with Barcelona on a USA tour, according to some videos he did well next to Maradona, why he didnt stay at Barcelona? that I would like to know.

    There is a reason why he is in Maradonas top 10, not disrespect to players like Recoba but Jorge was much more dominant and I did grow up watching Recoba on tv, he was one of my favorite players but Jorge played at a different individual level.

    He scored twice vs Barcelona, something Cristiano Ronaldo hasnt been able to do :D

    I tell you what, you put Recoba on that Salvadoran team that made it to Spain 82 instead of Jorge and El Salvador wouldnt've make it...

    Individually Jorge was really dominant, now I wonder if I could find out more info about his deal with Menotti.

    In fact, I wish a Salvadoran journalist would go to Menotti and ask him why he didnt keep Jorge at Barcelona... prob because he was a bad influence for young Maradona? could be a posibility...
     


  5. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

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    An amazing vid and also an awesome player!!!

    Highly rated in Cadiz

    BTW, i think that he got the blessed and curse of the true geniouses.

    I had the impression that he was able to do the greatest and also was unconsistent, i mean he got one awesome match, following by two matches which he dissapeared.
     
  6. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    I wonder where Hugo Sanchez rank, while he was a great finisher and won what? 5 Pichichis, you could never deny Jorge was a much more dominant player.

    Jorge beats Mexico of Hugo Sanchez, Jorge was able to take this modest Cadiz team and beat Barcelona and Valencia, and the only player you hear from that team was Jorge, something players like Recoba never did.

    I mean, Recoba was a great player but come on, what team ever depended on Recoba? Unlike Jorge, El Salvador was all Jorge, Cadiz was all Jorge, Fas in El Salvador was the same...

    Yes the comparisons between Magico and players like Kaka or Ronaldinho are legit because their teams depended on them, Cadiz players would give the ball to Jorge and they expected something to happen, not matter where on the field Jorge was, he was a monster of dribbling, his speed with the ball at his feet was just as fast as Fat Ronaldo, his creativity and street flair just as brilliant as Ronaldinho, his technique to kick free kicks was very good, his finishing was just as good as any other great finisher, his passes...
     
  7. Dominican Lou

    Dominican Lou Member+

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    This says more about Cadiz, El Salvador and FAS than it does about Gonzalez.
     
  8. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

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    Magico is top 100 all-time, and I personably rank him as the greatest player from Concacaf ahead of Hugo Sanchez and Claudio Reyna.
     
  9. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    Claudio Reyna? haha he is not even the best American ever.

    Americans.

    1. Donovan
    2. Hugo Perez (note: is Perez not Sanchez)

    Ricardo Saprissa was another great Salvadoran that should be mentioned in the concacaf greatest, heck, from what I have seen, Dempsey is better than Reyna, Wynalda was def better than Reyna.

    I could go into the top 50 of all times and see if Jorge fits in there, maybe even top 25, maybe.

    The only problem is, a lot of these players I never saw, there is very little to be said about them.

    For example, I was playing FIFA and they have some dude named Rivelino from Brazil in there, I dont know much about that guy.

    Another great example of how lack of press can make players invisible is Cariota Barraza, another one of the Salvadoran greatest, this guy took El Salvador to his first world cup in Mexico 70 but he got injured when El Salvador got there, so he didnt player the world cup.

    According to some of his records, he won about 3 or 4 national tittles as a player, about 3 or 4 as a coach, he was champion of central america and concacaf, and many historians say that the Santos of Pele wanted to sign him, why he didnt go? is another myth, I mean, why would a Brazilian team in the late 60s would want to sign a Salvadoran player? Specially if they had Pele on their team? :confused:

    But leaving the "myths" behind.

    Let me check the top 25 and top 50 players and see if I can recognize anybody there.

    If Hugo Sanchez is top 50, Jorge is def top 50, there is no way in heck Hugo was better than Jorge, no way.

    Going from the fact that Jorge took El Salvador to a world cup which is very hard to do.

    Let say you put a player like Luis Figo on that team, and guess what, I dont think Figo would have done what Jorge did, I mean, Figo was a great player but not that dominant, Jorge was so dominant technically, he is def one of the greatest attacking players ever with not doubt, and Im quoting Maradona here.

    Think about it, there was a chance for Jorge to fit next to Maradona at Barcelona :eek:, do you think Recoba would have been considered to play next to Maradona, Maradona... Lets be realistic here, Recoba gets there and Maradona would have been like "yo bro, go to the gas station and buy some cigarrettes, pronto" :D
     
  10. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    What top 50 players would have been able to take El Salvador to a world cup and to beat Barcelona and Valencia?

    Just wondering.
     
  11. jcsd

    jcsd Member

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    Top 50 where?

    El Salvador had already qualified for the WC once before and even in that year they qualified behind honduras giving you an idea of the level of competition they faced.

    Gonzalez ranks nowhere with the World's best,a good player, but not THAT good.

    There's a lesson to be learned: sometimes drugs make people talk crap.
     
  12. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    so you think Maradona was on drugs when he said that about Jorge? :eek:
     
  13. condor11

    condor11 Moderator Staff Member

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    It's not like el Salvador had to qualify out of urfa or conmebol
     
  14. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    so why dont you name a player that would have done the same thing?

    it may break a lot of hearts but I dont think Figo would have done it, Figo was great but...

    anybody going into that Barcelona team would have been Maradonas bi.tch, even Cristiano Ronaldo, if Maradona wanted Jorge there or if Jorge won all that respect from Maradona from a few weeks of traning and playing next to him, that means Jorge was balling at a similar level.

    In fact you can see in the videos where Maradona was number 10, Jorge was 11 and they both would pass the ball to each other and in many ocassions Maradona would stand in Jorges way or Jorge in Maradonas, they were both trying to put it together but both trying to get the attention at the same time.
     
  15. condor11

    condor11 Moderator Staff Member

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    Not sure I understand, u want me to name a player that could have qualified el Salvador on 82?

    Ok michael laudrup
     
  16. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    So Magico Gonzalez carried El Salvador past mighty Mexico, Cuba, Canada and Haiti to the 1982 World Cup.

    Oh wait lets see ....

    2 GF (none my Magico) 1 GA in 5 games

    Nice, so did he play as a defender?




    At least get your facts straight if you want to be a homer and push your overrated pal.



    But 'he' won against Real Madrid and Barcelona BOO-FREAKIN'-HOO what an accomlishment!

    Not like both teams lose about 1-2 games to bad squads every year, no?
     
  17. jcsd

    jcsd Member

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    Maybe, but longterm abuse of drugs can have lonterm effects...

    Seriously this thread is silly, the video made me laugh , especially the part about him controlling with his right foot and finishing with his left as if flicking it on with one foot and then applying a routine finish with the other foot about 10 metres away isn't something that a park player could do.
     
  18. jcsd

    jcsd Member

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    Exactly, also neither of those two goals in the final round of CONCACAF qualification for the 1982 WC were scored by him.
     
  19. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    I grew up playing streetsoccer bro, street ballers, we recognize whats hot and whats not bc we ball that way in the street.

    Ignorance can be annoying but fun at times sp when people think they know everything there is to know about futbol.

    Where is David Beckam ranked? Magico Gonzalez may not be from England but Jorge was 1000xs time a better player, much more dominant on the field.

    Anyway, my guess is that you dont speak or understand spanish. But we do have youtube now days you know, so the London newspapers are not the only ones where you can track "great" players, or fifa.com

    Here is a video I just found, everyday there is a great new video of the stuff Magico did back then, many many players including your world heroes would die to have the technique and speed Jorge had.

    In fact, on this video, the commentator says that Jorge was considered top40 in the world.

    The goal that knocked out Mexico and Hugo Sanchez out of the world cup starts at 6:29 and pay attention to it, defender Magico Gonzalez has something to do with the goal :D

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBRuy9PRr5A"]El Salvador [1] vs Mexico [0] : 11.6.1981 : WCQ1982 - YouTube[/ame]

    Assuming you are European, some Europeans can be the most ignorant people in the world, sp western europeans.

    Jorge was no joke, he was legit, ask Maradona about it.
     
  20. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    he was a great player, not as fast as Jorge.
     
  21. condor11

    condor11 Moderator Staff Member

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    I think most countries have at least one player that did unbelievable things for example Cesar cueto for peru

    Legend in peru, to some more than nene cubillas
     
  22. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    same happened in El Salvador but always the lack of international press can be a factor.

    We have 2 players that some people think were great.

    Jorge: by salvadorans compared to Pele because he was complete in every way, he could shoot from any angle with any feet at a great speed, a great finisher and a great creator.

    We had Francisco Barraza who was compared to Maradona by Salvadorans: many Salvadorans think he was better than Jorge, he was so arrogant that he said he never wanted to leave El Salvador ever, his left foot is remembered by many, he scored goals from the middle of the field, broke defenders legs with his shots, there is a story that Salvadorans said he killed a goalkeeper, his left foot was too powerfull and too good, he also ripped the nets, people that saw him play said his technique can def be compared to Maradonas left foot.

    When people asked Barraza if he thought young Magico Gonzalez was better than him Barraza responded, "not young long hair hippie is better than me."

    He was so arrogant that as a player he punched a journalist, as a coach one of his players died in practice from conditioning and he left him there thinking he was faking it, my uncle played for Barraza in a club named Deportivo Dragon but Dragon is in second division now.

    I heard Johan Cruyff was really arrogant as well, I guess Barraza is the Johan Cruyf of Salvadorans.

    When I get older I will like to visit Argentina and interview Menotti, I will also like to speak to Salvadoran historians, like college professors about the myth of Santos of Pele wanting to sign Barraza, again why would a brazilian team would want to sign a Salvadoran player in the 70s? :confused:

    Im studying journalism, Im obviously interested in these type of stories, Ricardo Saprissa is another great story of Salvadoran players.

    I grew up playing for the academy of CD Aguila, there is another myth saying that Santiago Solari went to try out for our club when he was younger, and he didnt make the team, then Solari came to play college soccer in the states, then he ended up in Real Madrid, who knows if is true :D

    A lot of myths in Salvadoran soccer and once I become a journalist I will make sure I dig a lot into it, some of our GrandParents stories are fascinating.
     
  23. AguiluchoMerengue

    AguiluchoMerengue Member

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    Assuming that I agree with Maradona that Jorge is top 10 of all times.

    I have been doing some research on my own about the top10 and top25, I def think Jorge is top 10 in the world, because of his record; anything thats not top15 is a lie, dont kid yourself putting players like Raul Gonzalez above Jorge.

    I do not have enought evidences of players such as Di Stefano, Eusebio, Puskas, Beckenbauer, and by that I mean videos, videos is the best way to judge a players technique with the ball.

    From what I have seen, and remember, I grew up playing street ball, in streetball nothing is impossible :p

    Here is an honest opinion of where Jorge ranks as one of the most technically dominant players of all time.

    1. Pele: Best finisher of all time
    2. Maradona: Great, great left foot
    3. Johan Cruyf: even though I havent seen enought of him, he has great numbers.
    4. Zidane/Magico/Ronaldinho/Fat Ronaldo: Ronaldo couldnt score free kicks but his speed compensate for that, Ronaldinho was lazy at times but a great streetballer, Jorge, he was so complete, he would make the impossible possible, Zidane didnt have much speed going but he was a master in every other aspect of the game.

    I will like to see more about Johan Cruyf, by many a great great player.

    Again this is my opinion, the opinion of a callefutbolero, where only fancy-flashy football counts ;)
     
  24. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

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    Nobody would put Raul in the top 15 in football history.
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    He was more arrogant in Spain than in Holland and for a good reason: it was a tactic to guard himself against the powers that be. In a hostile environment it is paramount that you do not show weaknesses or uncertainty.

    I bet that this tactic also works in El Salvador, which is, to say the least, not a very stable country.
     
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