Where is the Example of a Conservative Utopia?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Deep Wilcox, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

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    A couple of developments in the last few days have got me wondering: What country in the world today embodies the small government, low taxes, anti abortion, "private sector holds all the answers, let's drown government in the bathtub" mentality that is the cornerstone of the Republican right today. Where is the example of this low tax, small government, everything handled by the invisible hand of the markets?

    This struck me as I watched a few developments over the last few days. First, the seemless transition from "ITS UNCONSTITUTIONAL" to "ITS A TAX" when the supreme court sided with Obamacare. It seemed not to matter a wit to the reactionary right that they now needed to abandon the platitudes of the last six months and jump on a new screed. They just mindlessly started parroting this new talking point.

    Next, I live in Colorado. We are on fire. A combination of very dry winter, beetle killed pines, very hot summer and this state is ablaze. Basically every person who is pitching in to fight the fires and save a few homes are government workers. Police, Forest Service, National Guard, local fire departments, etc, etc. There are no private "fire fighter exchanges", no free market looting protection services popping up, no sign of "the invisible hand" anywhere. When the Republicans mouth their little ditty about "government isn't the answer, government is the problem", well I haven't heard anybody affected by these fires saying all the help they are receiving just needs to be strangled in the bathtub.

    So again, if these conservative theories work, where is the example.
    Dr. Wankler, fatbastard, MattR and 5 others repped this.


  2. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator Staff Member

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    This would be a reminder that when Obama introduced his jobs bill last week that had money in it for the hiring of more teachers and policemen and yes, firemen, Rmoney uttered the following:

    "He wants another stimulus, he wants to hire more government workers. He says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It’s time for us to cut back on government and help the American people."

    No, Mittens, we here in Colorado don't need more firemen. I mean, what the hell do they do?
  3. DynamoEAR

    DynamoEAR Member+

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    Hilarious because he and the GOP are the ones who have a religion to 'American Heroes' like firefighters,police, and military, those same government workers he wants to cut! :eek:(well, except the military)
  4. KCFutbol

    KCFutbol Moderator Staff Member

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    Aren't government workers "American people", Willard?


  5. Mr. Warmth

    Mr. Warmth BigSoccer Yellow Card

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    I can tell you that while the consultants that work for my office and the contractors that build what we put out are as far as I know, not Obama fans by any stretch of the imagination, they certainly had no problem taking the ARRA dollars (such that the BIA/Tribes got) to do the M/E/P, Civil & Structural Engineering on our projects or taking the money when they were building them.

    We're providing "stimulus" dollars in 50 countries outside the US, what's the problem with rebuilding our country or do we have to blow it up first?
  6. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator Staff Member

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    Nope. And when you lay them off, they're not unemployed.
  7. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    It's the south if Lincoln didn't screw everything up
  8. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Cascarino's Pizzeria Member+

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    Can't we outsource firefighting jobs to Indians and drop them on top of the fire? It would probably cost less.
  9. flowergirl

    flowergirl Member

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    amen. i certainly don't hear anyone saying they're going to move to Mexico right now. they all want to move to Canada....? Mexico surely seems like more of their nirvana than anywhere in europe. hell, even kuwait has national healthcare.
  10. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    And that's about it. Kuwait is the dullest country I have ever been to.
  11. DynamoEAR

    DynamoEAR Member+

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    They should move to Singapore.:)
  12. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

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    Singapore does a lot of things conservatives like - minimal restrictions for hedge funds, crackdown on "quality of life" crimes, investment of government pension funds in the stock market. But it's also a technocratic state that wS part of the Asian miracle that doesn't fit into the movement conservative narrative, alas.

    So Pakistan, it is. Maybe Somalia.
  13. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

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    I think Singapore has universal coverage and a public option for health care. So that aint the answer to the search for conservative utopia.
  14. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

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    [​IMG]

    Education so bad the stupid ********ers dont even know how to spell Mongolia.
  15. DynamoEAR

    DynamoEAR Member+

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    uhhh
  16. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

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    http://www.governing.com/news/state/2010-census-public-employees-workforce-among-states.html
    About 1/6 of the US workforce is public employees. The numbers varies from state to state. Colorado's 14.9% is just below the national average of 15.3%. Aparently, there are about 2.3 million working and about 200,000 unemployed. Of the 340,000 or so public workers, how many are paid firefighters? From what I've read, most FDs are volunteer.
    http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/CDLE-Main/CDLE/1251615537783
    The IAAF estimates the numbers of paid FFs battling the blazes as "hundreds":
    http://www.iaff.org/12News/062712ColoradoWildfires.html
  17. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

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    The Waldo Canyon fire in Colorado Springs for example is being fought by the Colorado Springs Fire Dept (definitely NOT volunteer), The National Gaurd, the Forest Service and the affected neighborhoods are being protected by the Sheriff and Police Dept. All paid government workers. Just as an example for one fire.

    But this is a tangent. My question is: Where in the world does the low tax, minimal government model work that would be what we as America should be trying to emulate?
  18. VFish

    VFish Member+

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    No libertarian model advocates no goverenment and fire fighting is just the kind of government libertarians would endorse. Perhaps you should find a better example of libertarian failure?
  19. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

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    Well actually, I am looking for an example of lib/conservative success. So far, the only proposal has been the deep south during slavery, Pakistan and Somalia. I'm hoping for a more clear cut example of success.
  20. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

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    Well, it was almost half of your OP.
    Most US FDs are volunteer.
  21. DoctorD

    DoctorD Member+

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    One problem is that the American definition of conservative or liberal is not philosophically consistent. Each party is a way to get into power, not an expression of political philosophy.

    Also, the US is getting closer to a zero-sum society and people just don't want to accept it. The US has never had to confront this situation ever in its history. This is being exploited by the Republicans. Since the game of soccer is intrinsically zero-sum, we on this forum can accept it better than most.
  22. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

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    I think about this often, particular as the conservative counter to liberal policies tends to be "that never works." And inevitably, well yeah it does seem to work, because various successful and attractive countries follow that approach.

    I'd guess that Hong Kong is the best conservative example. But if the conservatives are going to cite Hong Kong, then they need to give up that favorite line of argument used against liberals -- that the country cited by the liberals is too small and homogeneous to be a valid comparison for the U.S. If Finland or Sweden or Canada or even Germany aren't valid, then Hong Kong certainly does not count either.

    So back to Pakistan I guess.
  23. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member

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    We are the Greatest country in the world. Is China better especially for women for example. Is Russia better and the rest are all going to hell now with their socialists governments.They are going broke and they will stay broke.

    If you think things are better in other countries move there, and be well and try to prosper.You wont except in Germany at least right now.Hey they are not happy there because Italia beat then :)
    We used to believe that our kids will be better off then us.

    They think that we all should be middle class that is the American dream under Barry or whatever the fucck his name really is. Except for him he is not middle class at least not yet.

    Almost forgot 2:30 eastern time Italia beats Spain. It should be an interesting game tacticly. I know we are all fans of the sport or we would not be on here. After all no matter what else is discussed on this site it is still a soccer site.

    Look for Italy getting a lot of interceptions from their backs. That does not happen when you play a zone Italy plays a zone like everyone else but their backs are steping up on the pass like they do in man a good way to play in this game Then look for them to counter after the interception if they are going to beat spain that is how they will do it. So look for Italy trying to do that.
  24. Deep Wilcox

    Deep Wilcox BigSoccer Supporter

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    So to recap: Greatest nation in the world. Move if ya don't like it. Birfer nonsense. Change the subject. We are screwed.
    Mattbro and That Phat Hat repped this.
  25. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator Staff Member

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    Very astute observation. Now that you put it in that context I think I have figured out what at least non psychopath conservative utopia is. It's baseball.

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