1. Save 40-80% on great soccer jerseys. Shop today at BigSoccer Shop!

Will Collinsville wait another year?

Discussion in 'St. Louis' started by loofa, Mar 20, 2009.

  1. loofa

    loofa New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Country:
    United States
    Do you guys think Collinsville will wait out another year or will they nix the deal? If they do I hope Cooper already has a good plan B with Soccer Park and all the issues that need to be fixed there.
     


  2. sportie1

    sportie1 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    st louis/cooper needs to build the proof that they can sustain and develop professional soccer capable of catching the eye of mls owners-- the city/cooper should field a team in 2010 in USL 1 and start the building of fan, player development and corporate support from the ground-up
     
  3. PopsKrock

    PopsKrock New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Location:
    Belleville
    Club:
    AC St. Louis
    Country:
    United States
    PLaying in USL doesn't help St. Louis in any way. The concern was never over how well the team would draw. It was about cash. St. Louis already has a great player development system and some of the most knowledgable soccer fans in the states. If USL would some how draw in a billionaire, you might have a point.
     
  4. SiberianThunderT

    SiberianThunderT Member+

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Location:
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Country:
    Spain
    I think the idea he was getting at (emphasis mine) was that if STL could prove they could draw in the USL, then an investor with the $$ you mentioned would be more likely to join the bid. Which I agree with. A lot of people probably view STL as a currently untested market, or maybe even one saturated with other major sports teams, so without proof their investment will perform well, they weren't gonna help the MLS bid.

    To answer the thread question, I hope so but I doubt it.
     


  5. Cville K C

    Cville K C Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Location:
    Collinsville, IL
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Country:
    United States
    I seriously doubt that Collinsville will sign off on a USL stadium or a MLS stadium for a USL team. That would be a really, really long shot.

    In my opinion, the council will change dramatically after the elections in April. Of course, Mayor Stan passed away and he was the driving force from the city's standpoint of getting the stadium project done. I think his successor, Mayor Miller, will likely be defeated in April. Ciampoli, the one person who voted against it originally, is still on the council. One of the other council members could win re-election, but I consider it to be a soft vote, that could switch if a vote comes up again. It could very easily go from a 4-1 affirmative to 3-2 negative.

    I'm not sure what exactly happens now. Do they have to extend the TIF authority from the original vote or does it continue on it's own unless they terminate it? I know that they would have to do one final vote before they can start construction, which I believe is the actual stadium agreement between the city and Cooper's group.

    In any event, I think it is pretty shaky right now.
     
  6. PopsKrock

    PopsKrock New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Location:
    Belleville
    Club:
    AC St. Louis
    Country:
    United States
    Miller is trailing? I hope he pulls out. He has done a pretty good job so far. If Dalton wins we would still have a yes vote from the Mayor, but I don't know about Springer. Who out of the potential council members would be no votes? Kypta?
     
  7. Cville K C

    Cville K C Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Location:
    Collinsville, IL
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Country:
    United States
    Dalton was a yes vote and I'm hoping she won't switch, but I'm not sure given the economy. She is preaching caution on development lately. Dalton is pretty popular so I think she'll beat Miller. Ciampoli was a no last time around and retains her seat. Moss was for it and is up again and hopefully won't switch. Joy Springer is an unknown. She was talking about taking a hard line to insure more jobs went to Collinsville residents, but has kind of indicated she'd be for it. Kypta, I believe has a union background, which could be a plus (new construction = more union members working), but he is an unknown, too. Pulley will definitely be for it. I don't anything about Mathews. The best case scenario would probably be Miller, Dalton (who would retain her regular council seat if she lost to Miller), Pulley, Moss, and Ciampoli.

    So out of the people running or retaining seats:

    Miller-yes
    Dalton-maybe yes
    Ciampoli-no
    Moss-probably yes
    Pulley-yes
    Kypta-unknown
    Mathews-unknown
    Springer-unknown

    Maybe, not as bad as I originally thought, but I'm not sure how the economy affects their votes and they have to consider the bond sale, too.
     
  8. Angus Podgorney

    Angus Podgorney Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2006
    Location:
    St. Louis
    There was an article in the Post-Dispatch last week about the Collinsville school district having a layoff. I'm not sure about how the development is set up now, but it seemed like the original proposal had housing units associated with it. There was concern then, even before the economic downturn, about adding more burden to the school district while keeping the tax revenue for the operation of the stadium and team.

    On a separate note, the same issue of the P-D that had the article about the Collinsville school district layoffs had an article about InBev Anheuser Busch pulling their sponsorship from drag car racing, saying that they wanted to move in a different direction for advertising. That didn't seem to bode well for them having any interest in sponsoring a soccer team.
     
  9. sirfallsalot_2000

    sirfallsalot_2000 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Club:
    AC St. Louis
    I would like a USL team if the MLS falls through in the bitter end. But I absolutely agree, USL does not influence MLS, as proved by low attendance or no team in Houston, San Jose, Philly and Toronto.

    3 years ago we all thought that a SSS was the gateway to the MLS. Now people are trying to tell us it is USL success just because of these last 3 franchises? BS, and furthermore just another way to lead us by our collective noses.
     
  10. SteJen

    SteJen Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    In the aftermath of the last few days, I still stand by my (edited) sentiments of a posting (see below) that I'd made earlier this week.

    ..............................

    The ONLY hope for serious consideration at that time would be a COMPLETELY different bid.

    Beyond the obvious "major investors", personally, I honestly think a big problem has been the stadium location. People who live in Cottleville or Ballwin will NOT drive 40+ miles to Collinsville. By the same token, how many living in Glen Carbon or Edwardsville will make the similar trek to Soccer Park? Certainly not enough to make the operation profitable.

    While a nice gesture/gift from ABI, Soccer Park is NOT the answer. With periodic flooding from the Meremac and terrible access from 1-44, making this facility MLS ready would be horrifically expensive. Rather than throwing tens of millions towards that, why not put investor monies towards the following?

    The best chance to draw fans from ALL areas, is a downtown stadium, either near Busch (Ballpark Village, anyone?), or within a few miles WEST of the Arch, easily accessible via Metrolink or the bus. There's a reason that the Cardinals, Rams, Blues all are downtown. Yes, I know that in the early days of Cooper's interest, he couldn't get the time of day from the St. Louis politicians, but with major private donor support, PEOPLE WILLING TO PAY FOR THE STADIUM THEMSELVES, the reception may be different.


    ..............................

    Now we're hearing the latest wrinkle from Don Garber, that in so many words, 2012 doesn't NECESSARILY mean when the next two cities would START play, but the point at which the next round of expansion process would begin again. :eek: Play on the fields wouldn't begin for another 1 to 2 years later. God help us!

    Why would Collinsville wait another 4+ years? This is not a trick question.

    It's very simple - privately-funded, downtown stadium, period.

    Or nothing.
     
  11. enrique1853

    enrique1853 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Location:
    St. Louis
    But not every city.team has a stadium in their downtown area. Where would we put it? Ballpark village? I don't see any room right now in the "heart" of downtown St. Louis for a stadium. Now, I don't know if you are familiar with Fenton, but I am, seeing as though I live there and would love to see the stadium go there. Where the Chrysler plan stands currently would be a great place for a stadium. The flooding has never reached that area. Granted, the soccer park floods from time to time but is cleared out quickly.

    As for access, you are correct.. it is horrible. There is only one way in and out of soccer park. But I cannot see the MLS or anyone building such an investment right there... hence, why I believe it would/should go where the Chrysler plan is. At that location, you have many ways to get in an out of the stadium, and many possibilities to make more ways to get in an out. Lets be realistic, we won't draw and St. Louis Cardinal crowd... constantly at least.

    The stadium will seet prob 20,000 I assume. (F*ck Garber - sorry of my turrets). I am sure traffic could flow at a decent pace in an out on game days where, again, the chrysler plant stands.

    This is just my speculation but there is a reason Cooper hasn't given up. There is a reason MLS keeps saying our name in "potential" expansions. There is also a reason, that right before the announcments, AB says they want to do more with the soccer park and I can only assume be a major contrubuter/sponsor to a St. Louis team, in bringing a team to the St. Louis county area... I think more is being done behind closed doors than we realize. Perhaps we still are very close and we might have to wait a year for Fenton to decide what it will do. Maybe we can go to a Fenton city hall meeting? Show support?
     
  12. mitchs3

    mitchs3 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Location:
    STL
    Link, please?

    ____________

    As for a downtown or near downtown stadium, to a man (or woman) I think we'd all prefer that to anywhere else, but (1) Collinsville is the only - and I'm pretty sure ONLY - municipality on either side of the river that stepped up to help with financing a stadium when Cooper (and at the time Michael Hauge (butchered spelling)) were pitching this concept initially, and I don't think that anyone else has stepped up since, and (2) both St. Louis City and St. Louis County have laws adopted by initiative petition that require ANY public funding for sports stadia to be put to a public vote. In this climate, that isn't going to happen. And if Cooper doesn't have the cash to satisfy MLS when he's not funding the stadium, do you think he has the cash to pay the franchise fee, startup costs, etc. PLUS fund a stadium?

    Again, I'd love to see a stadium near to downtown, but I think it is a lost cause.
     
  13. SteJen

    SteJen Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    If you check today's Soccer By Ives website, the article titled: "20 MLS Teams Is NOT A Lock" contains the following paragraph:

    "We've not said 20 by 2012, we're saying that we have to decide what we are going to do in the next round (of expansion)," Garber told SBI on Thursday night. "That next round would come no earlier than 2012, but we've got a lot of work to do to figure out when those next two teams come in, (my emphasis) where they should be, where they should be geographically located and how we will manage the player pool."

    While I may be reading between (above? below?) the lines, what this says to me is that sure, new cities (with their $40MM+ expansion fees) will certainly be on our minds, but we're not really going to get serious again for a few years. Then we'll take a fresh/current look and start the 1 to 2 year bid process again. To me, that means the next team(s) in 2013 or 2014. Hey, I could be completely wrong, but adding 4 teams (Seattle, Philly, Vancouver, Portland) in the last 16 months would make me want to step back and stop for a while.

    I have a couple of thoughts to the rest of your post, but I'll have to do that later tonight.
     
  14. mitchs3

    mitchs3 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Location:
    STL
    Thanks for the link - interesting.

    As for the follow up, I'm leaving town tomorrow (at least THAT will get me off these stupid boards) so I may not be able to read/respond to the follow up post for a while. FWIW - I agree completely with you that it would be the best place for a stadium, having lived in both metro east and west county; I just don't see it happening for the reasons stated.
     
  15. Rowdies1965

    Rowdies1965 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Looks like our best bet is relocation of an existing franchise. After watching games Saturday night and Sunday, looks like not much interest in either of the L.A. teams. Would love to have Chivas!!

    This league is a joke! I would love to see Mexican League expand into USA. Teams in Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Antonio, St. Louis would not be any further than travelling coast to coast in the US and the game plays at alot higher level!!

    Viva La Mexico!!
     
  16. IndyMac

    IndyMac Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Location:
    Indiana
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Country:
    United States
    To me, this just says that they aren't promising anything. They won't expand anywhere unless that place has everything in order. If no one is ready to come in for 2012, no one will. If some billionaire comes out of nowhere and says that he wants to fund his own stadium and team in StL, then he will get in. Basically they are still open to expanding, but they won't expand for expansions sake.
     
  17. Marchetti

    Marchetti Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago->STL->Denver
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Here is my logical, but comletely unrealistic, idea for MLS-to-STL:

    The City of Collinsville should build a BIGGER stadium. Maybe... 30-35,000 seater. They should also become the majority owner for the STL MLS franchise. Cooper could still be heavily involved, of course.

    This way, we have more money for a franchise, and a stadium. And to make amends with village residents, the new franchise will offer HEAVILY discounted tickets to village residents (according to Wikipedia, there are roughly 25,000 residents). Since not ALL residents would come, you could imagine a decent 10-20,000 butts-in-the-seat from non-Collinsville locales. Heck... ALL stadium-related revenue would go to the Village. We aren't dealing with a middleman like an AEG, here.

    Do municipalities get in the business of owning teams? I feel like, in certain ways, some do, or have.
     
  18. mitchs3

    mitchs3 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Location:
    STL
    Novel idea I guess, but as you said to start your post, completely unrealistic.

    Cities and other municipalities are creatures of statute - they exist by virtue of state laws that provide for their establishment. Those same laws provide the guidelines for what they can and cannot do. Obviously each state's laws are different, and even within a state the laws for different 'classes' of cities can be different, but they are generally all limited to serving 'governmental' functions. Ownership of a professional sports franchise would typically not fall into the category of a governmental function. I would think that there would be protesters howling at the first suggestion of spending municipal tax money for such a purpose (perhaps even more so than for just the building of the stadium).

    Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I don't recall a city owning a franchise in any of the major sports. Maybe in a minor league. Again, it would depend on the laws of the given place, and most likely whether (1) the city had that power by law, and (2) even if they arguably did have the power, whether the population would react to doing so by voting out all the officials who approved the purchase.
     
  19. Marchetti

    Marchetti Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago->STL->Denver
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Of course, as is also the case with Collinsville, numerous Park Districts or State-funded "Sports Commissions" own stadium and other venues.

    Bridgeview owns Toyota Park and the City of Chicago (by way of its Park District) owns Soldier Field.

    This is an extreme case (due to their bankruptcy), but I believe it is the Illinois Sports Commission (??) that must oversee who can buy the Chicago Cubs from Tribune Co. I suppose to a degree, the State is mandating who can own a sports franchise (which technically goes along with the above post).
     
  20. 2ndOpinion

    2ndOpinion New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Club:
    --other--
    The Green Bay Packers are community owned.
     
  21. mitchs3

    mitchs3 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Location:
    STL
    Depends upon what you mean by community. They are owned by stockholders, NOT by the City of Green Bay, which is what I believe was being floated as an idea here. See the Packers web site.

    As I said, I don't think there is a team in a major sport owned by the municipality (i.e., the city, town, county, etc.) it plays in.
     
  22. dweissen

    dweissen New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2008
    Yes, but they've basically been grandfathered and I doubt it will ever happen again. Which is too damn bad, really.
     
  23. evangel

    evangel Member+

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fan-owned_sports_teams

    Very interesting list. Such teams tend to be among the most highly supported teams in their respective leagues. Maybe you guys to pool together the money of about 100,000 people in the area. You'd be permanently guaranteed one of the highest attendances in the league when the fans have their own money invested.
     
  24. Marchetti

    Marchetti Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago->STL->Denver
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    If these sorts of models provide any indication, Seattle is the only club with a system even remotely close to being fan-owned, as they have their "members" vote on GM choices.

    It is always interesting to see and hear about these sorts of franchises. Football Club United Manchester was formed after the Glazer's took over ManUtd, and I'm not too sure how they're doing.

    There is also a fairly large "trust" with deep roots within Arsenal FC, even though they are not fan-owned.
     
  25. FireFanInPackerLand

    FireFanInPackerLand Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Country:
    United States
    They've been promoted three times in three seasons. As of the time I write this, they are presently occupying one of the playoff spots for promotion to Conference North/South. If they achieve it through victory in the playoffs, they will sit only two divisions below League football.
     

Share This Page