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World Cup Individual Advanced Stats

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by schwuppe, Dec 18, 2012.

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  1. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    Dearman, La-Máquina, ChaChaFut and 4 others repped this.


  2. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    I wanted to make a ranking of best performanced based on those stats, but I scrapped that idea and decided to just name some players without order who's World Cup looked the most impressive on paper.

    Forward/Striker/Winger

    Baggio 94
    Boniek 82
    Careca 86
    Cruyff 74
    Eusebio 66
    Haller 66
    Held 66
    Jairzinho 70
    Kempes 78
    Lato 74
    Maradona 86
    Müller 70
    Müller 74
    Pele 70
    Rivaldo 02
    Rivelino 70
    Ronaldo 02
    Rossi 82
    Villa 10
    Zico 82

    Midfielder

    Beckenbauer 66
    Charlton 66
    Deschamps 98
    Deyna 74
    Falcao 82
    Frings 02
    Giresse 82
    Haan 78
    Hagi 94
    Häßler 94
    Matthäus 90
    Peters 66
    Platini 82
    Sneijder 10
    Socrates 82
    Stojkovic 90
    W. van de Kerkhof 78
    Xavi 10
    Zidane 98
    Zidane 06
     
  3. frasermc

    frasermc Take your flunky and dangle

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    You're going to have to check that list again schwuppe. I see no mention of Iniesta anywhere therefore the OPTA calculations must surely be incorrect...


    And where the hell is Dave Narey for '82!?!

    Is there some sort of anti-Scottish cleansing act going on in this forum... :cautious:
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Great work.

    Not to criticize but why did you include Hagi in the list while Castrol has him on place 36 of 1994WC?

    It is hard to designate a clear best defender/midfielder/forward based on the stats or a clear group of best players.

    As said in other threat, it has few caveats (dependent on draw and small sample).
     


  5. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    I added some players that I found interesting afterwards and plan to expand the list further.

    Yes, two other problems are that there are no stats for single games just the totals and that the value and difficulty for some stats changed over time.
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Sorry, I meant: why did you include Hagi among the 'best performers' list? The reasons? Which stats stand out?

    Which stats became less and more important over time you think? I indeed see that difficulty has changed for some.

    Yes, also the ball has changed drastically, on purpose (starting with 1994WC).

    I also noticed that many of the most frequent passers are located in the last two decades and in particular the last decade. Though among the forwards and midfielders evergreens Beckenbauer & Cruijff still rank among the best (funnily, Messi is the second best forward in terms of passes attempted).

    It is maybe possible to track how many times players were ranked among the top 10 or top 20 of each stat although not every stat is equally important and as you said the core dynamics of the game change over time.

    At a quick glance I noticed that Boniek is among the best at many of them (which I find relevant).

    Also Clodoaldo looks good while he is rarely seen as an all-time great (sometimes even categorized among the weaker links of that vintage team). Signals maybe that it also depends on which team you play and which role?

    Similarly impressive is how Xavi matches a high pass accuracy with a big amount of chances created (next question is: what kind of chances?). You naturally expect some trade-off here.

    Anyhow, I can think of many caveats but nevertheless informative. At least gives some more info about (sometimes baseless) claims as "he was also a world class goalkeeper" and so on. Or "he was one of the best readers the game has ever seen."

    edit: one final thing, in the default window I can not use the 'arrows' above the columns. I have to switch to the 'alternative' view o_O
     
  7. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    Rather odd that of all player you ask about Hagi as he wasn't even close to the cutoff.
    Duels, Recoveries, Fould Won, Chances Created, Assists, Goals...

    Well compare GPG for 1970 and 1990, obviously a goal is 'worth' more in '90.

    Deyna '74. :thumbsup:
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Ah yes, within WC94 he was among the best. Not in overall picture but at that WC it is the case.

    Strange that Castrol ranks him outside of top 30 of that WC.
     
  9. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    After seeing the detailed OPTA stats I don't really comprehend how Castrol calculates their rating.
    How did Romario end up with 9.79 and Jairzinho only with 9.74, despite having goals, more chances created, way more efficient scoring, more recoveries, fouls won, a lot more successful at duels?
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    About Ronaldo02 vs Romario94... I don't see much difference? :confused:

    Similar SA, similar shots on target, similar fouls suffered, similar chances created.

    Most important stats for striker are similar.

    Curious.
     
  11. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    8 goals, not 5.

    5 goals in 7 games is somewhere in the Top 20 - 30 in GPG just among forwards I've included.
    And it's not like Romario has much else going for him.

    Ronaldo is 7th and 5/6 ahead of him are from '66 & '70, some playing only less than half of his games.
     
  12. y.o.n.k.o

    y.o.n.k.o Member

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    I would love to see a ranking list of best performances.

    Looking at this one here, I want to ask where are the following: Ronaldo 98, Stoitchkov 94, Pele 58.....Iniesta 10 :D?
     
  13. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    The lack of reading comprehension of some people was the reason for not making the list.
    You just showed me I made the correct decision.

    Hint #1: OPTA started tracking stats in '66.
    Hint #2: If you're unhappy that your favourite player was left off the list based on who has the most impressive STATS, then go on and make a case for him using the stats instead of just dropping some names.
     
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  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    Good job Schwuppe and Comme :thumbsup:

    But do not find Zidane Xavi Zico ...
     
  15. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    Try again.
    I put in a filter to only show FW, somehow google docs saved it. Should be fixed now.
     
  16. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

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    thanks
     
  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Agree that a goal is most important thing in football. Also agree that GPG matters.

    5.385 : Switzerland 1954
    4.667 : France 1938
    4.118 : Italy 1934
    4.000 : Brazil 1950
    3.889 : Uruguay 1930
    3.600 : Sweden 1958
    2.969 : Mexico 1970
    2.808 : Spain 1982
    2.781 : Chile 1962
    2.781 : England 1966
    2.712 : United States 1994
    2.684 : Argentina 1978
    2.672 : France 1998
    2.553 : West Germany 1974
    2.538 : Mexico 1986
    2.516 : Korea/Japan 2002
    2.297 : Germany 2006
    2.212 : Italy 1990

    But sometimes players are just unlucky. Like Cruijff only having three goals and three assists while among the best in some related categories (SA%, chances created).

    It depends on the draw as well. In that respect I wonder how the match vs Haiti of Deyna influences his stats. Haiti is one of the worst opponents of the 16 teams era since WC 1950.

    Only Bolivia1950, Colombia1962, Switzerland1966, El Salvador1970, Zaire1974 were equally worse or lower ranked in the 16 teams era.
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Where is that GPG column by the way?
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    What is the way to sort the columns btw?
     
  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    A calculation of minutes per chance created is interesting to me:
    I've spotted 4 (maybe the only 4?) with a chance created in less than 20 minutes on average:
    Johan Cruyff '74 (with 3 assists)
    Pele '70 (with 6 assists)
    Gianni Rivera '70 (with 1 assist)
    Kazimierz Deyna '74 (with 0 assists)
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    Castrol website notes btw that record of chances created in open play is one chance every 22 minutes by Cruijff. That is the lowest.
    This stat also includes chances created by set-pieces.
     
  22. comme

    comme Moderator Staff Member

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    Select base data at the bottom then copy to an excel sheet of your own and you can play around with it.

    I was most impressed by Dunga's passing stats. Thought they were incredible.
     
  23. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    There isn't one.
    I calculated it and a few other stats in my own file.
     
  24. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member

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    Chances Created per game:


    Johan Cruyff 1974 FW 7 5,1
    Thomas Häßler 1994 MF 5 4,8
    Pele 1970 FW 6 4,7
    Kazimierz Deyna 1974 MF 7 4,3
    Xavi 2010 MF 6 4,3
    Alain Giresse 1982 MF 6 4,0
    Alain Giresse 1986 MF 6 4,0
    Andreas Brehme 1990 DF 6 4,0
    Diego Maradona 1986 FW 7 3,9
    Alessandro Mazzola 1966 MF 3 3,7
    Zinedine Zidane 1998 MF 5 3,6
    Careca 1986 FW 5 3,6
    Giuseppe Giannini 1990 MF 7 3,6
    Andrea Pirlo 2006 MF 7 3,4
    Bernd Schneider 2002 MF 7 3,4
    Dragan Stojkovic 1990 MF 5 3,4
    Zico 1982 FW 5 3,4
    Lionel Messi 2010 FW 5 3,2
    Arie Haan 1978 MF 6 3,2
    Michel Platini 1986 MF 6 3,2
    Ronald de Boer 1998 MF 6 3,2
    Siggi Held 1966 FW 6 3,2
    Bobby Charlton 1966 MF 6 3,0
    Lothar Matthaus 1990 MF 7 3,0
    Diego Maradona 1982 FW 5 3,0
    Geoff Hurst 1966 FW 3 3,0
    Zbigniew Boniek 1982 FW 6 3,0
     
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

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    Yeah - I was calculating them last night and Cruyff's was the best ratio I found with one every 17 minutes (total chances including set pieces).
    I thought there were 4 under 20 minutes, but calculating Deyna '74 now that is just above so either I'd spotted another on there are 3 I know of. Rivera, interestingly, always came on as sub when he played.

    Some with 20-30 minutes I noticed:
    Maradona '86 (5 assists)
    Zico '82 (4 assists)
    Giannini '90 (3 assists)
    Some from 30-35 IIRC:
    Stojkovic '90 (exactly one every 30 minutes - 1 assist)
    Tigana '82 (3 assists)
    M.Laudrup '86 (1 assist though Planet World Cup counts two vs Uruguay - I know he got a pre-assist vs Scotland too which might be an interesting stat to account for with other players too)
    Messi (1 assist - also might be awarded more with other rules to be fair)

    There will definately be others from 20-35 minutes - these are just a selection of ones I looked - for example Wim Jonk in '98 got one every 27.2 mins, Ronald de Boer one every 27.7 mins with 3 and 2 assists respectively I just noticed (Bergkamp's chance created ratio isn't as good but he also got 3 assists for the Netherlands as I'm sure you remember - I suppose his assist per chance created ratio is better though:laugh::confused:).

    Pierre Littbarski in '82 got one in just under 31 mins, with 5 assists btw. I'll try and remember or find who else got one chance created in under 20 mins on average if there was a 4th player indeed... (EDIT - There is another player - Thomas Hassler - see post lower down page).
     
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