WPS Disciplinary Committee

Discussion in 'NWSL' started by McDude, Jun 2, 2010.

  1. McDude

    McDude New Member

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    Given the most recent red card incident and the just announced WPS decision to suspend Caroline Seger for 2 games, what do you think of this?

    Is this what the players, coaches, or most importantly fans want and is this a wise policy by the league?

    http://www.womensprosoccer.com/Home/news/league-discipline.aspx

    My two cents:
    The overall policy of changing red cards to multiple game suspension seems unconventional and unusual. It is pretty fan unfriendly as I assume they are paying money to see these players who are getting suspended beyond the norm. This is also a continuation of the trend from last year and I don't think it is a wise policy, nor good for the fans of the league. It should only be done in the most egregious of situations.

    Not sure why WPS feels compelled to do this (for safety of players?, because fouls are so egregious, why, oh why?)?


  2. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    I do think the Seger hands to the face shove warranted more than the standard one game red card suspension. It was a ridiculous and stupid fit of pique that should not be tolerated.

    I disagreed w/ the suspension of McNeill this season 1) because no video of the play in question was provided to the public 2) several bigsoccer posters (fans of the "other" team) at the game did not remember the foul being particularly strong/hard/egregious. and 3) it seemed a little close to targeting one particular player--there wasn't even a yellow card given by the ref for that particular foul in what was reported being a fairly clean & foul free game.

    As for your general question about the existence of a disciplinary committee, at the moment the only thing I have to say is that most leagues with which I am familiar have a disciplinary committee of some sort, hand down fines for yellow/red cards, fines for other matters, and add extra suspensions for things like "bringing the game into disrepute." I don't have a problem with its existence in WPS. I just want more transparency.
  3. DCUPopeAndLillyFan

    DCUPopeAndLillyFan Member

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    How? It's completely normal. A red card is the maximum punishment an on-field official can issue a player, but not all red cards are equal. Should a goalkeeper who disrupts a scoring opportunity by handling outside the 18 get the same suspension as someone who kicks their opponent in the head several times while prone on the ground? One game suspension is just a minimum, not an absolute standard. And who gives a hoot if it's fan friendly - if you want respect as a sports league you have to operate like a legitimate sports league. I really don't see where you're going with this thread.
  4. kittenbiscuits

    kittenbiscuits New Member

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    quick question, because i can't recall it happening before, can you get more than one red cardable offense bundled into a single redcard?
    for example seger. the red wasn't pulled out until after she started cussing at the referree which is a cardable offense. but in addition she did have the foul on huffman. is it the norm for one red card to cover both red card offenses?


  5. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

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    I have mixed feelings about Seger's extended suspension: on the one hand, it seemed on the replay more like a shove to the face than a hit to the face. On the other hand, Huffman went down and stayed down for a while.

    I was at the game for the McNeill incident but was not close by. I've heard some who were closer by say it wasn't that bad and other say it was pretty bad. I agree with kool-aide that it's an issue that there's no video available that lets the fans judge for themselves the seriousness of the incident.
  6. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

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    I think it's more accurate to say that the red wasn't pulled out until the referee consulted with the assistant referee. (The television coverage did a really horrible job of showing this process.)
  7. kittenbiscuits

    kittenbiscuits New Member

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    oh i wasn't trying to say that the cussing is what was carded. only that cussing at the referee in that manner is in of itself worthy of a card. since both were done before the card was pulled i was wondering if both offenses would normally be taken as one in terms of punishment. and my question is broad as in not limited to WPS league standards but international etc.

    i should have phrased it better, apologies.
  8. SCCL

    SCCL Member

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    I think Seger deserved the red for the face push, don't necessarily agree that she deserved the additional game. And, I will say, I think Huffman has learned a bit about "falling down" from Abby!! ; ) Plus, Huffman was not completely innocent in her behavior, but the retaliator is the one who usually gets caught.
  9. moog

    moog Member

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    It was your classic red card for retaliation. I don't think a push to the face warrants a second game supension. An elbow or punch, maybe, but a 'get off me!' shove? Hardly. That decision was a bit over the top IMHO. It sure wouldn't hurt if the committee published WHY they gave the extra game.
  10. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

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    I agree that this should be a one game suspension only.
  11. DCUPopeAndLillyFan

    DCUPopeAndLillyFan Member

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    Just to make clear, my comments were not meant to debate the Seger suspension specifically - I haven't even watched a replay - but to dispel the idea that the DC tacking a game on to a red card suspension if they feel it necessary was somehow out of line with how it's done elsewhere. Whether it should apply to Seger in this case, debate away.
  12. suncraver03

    suncraver03 New Member

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    Is there a replay of this available? I didn't see the foul.
  13. suncraver03

    suncraver03 New Member

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    never mind. found it [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qZz4I9Z0tM"]YouTube- 5/30/10 - Wambach helps Freedom defeat Independence, 2-1[/ame]

    around 3:35
  14. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

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    Actually, I believe WPS is trying to be lenient. They are probably aware that the Premier League in England issues mandatory three match bans for violent conduct, as opposed to a single match ban for serious foul play (please correct me if this is not so).

    For me, I think it is highly questionable to call this violent conduct as opposed to reckless foul play or serious foul play. Seger's opponent (Sarah Huffman) got so low that it is very difficult to determine if Seger had any intention at all of pushing her in the face (if she did deliberately push her in the face, I would have no issue with the VC charge).

    Was the WPS or its constituents unduly influenced by Jenn Hildreth's description of the play as being an "obviously intentional" push to the face? Quite possibly.
  15. Mookie141

    Mookie141 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not a rocket scientist, but it appears to me that she intentionally pushed Huffman's face. It was almost like she just snapped after she couldn't take the ball the first few attempts. She was kinda like get away you little twit, then boom *facepush*. The motion that comes from her arm should really be tested on that sports science show. Bottom line in my eyes she totally deserves her punishment.
  16. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

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    I didn't have any doubt. She appeared to look at where her hand was going before she looked back to the ball. And the actual push seemed to be with splayed fingers-- I figured Huffman was down because she got one in one or both eyes...

    Not an action that is likely to injure, but one that has the potential for career ending injury; plus the violent dissent afterwards-- seems to me two games might be a bit lighter than warranted. But that's just me.
  17. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

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    What violent dissent?
  18. Cville K C

    Cville K C Member

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    The only I will say is that the league is sort of being consistent in that the two 2-game suspensions they have handed out both involved contact to the head, although one wasn't red carded. Christine Latham received a 2-game suspension last year for an elbow to Alex Singer's jaw if I remember correctly. So it seems that they are deeming blows to the head as being dangerous enough to warrant 2-game suspensions.

    In Seger's case, she claimed in a post-game quote that Huffman had grabbed her shorts, but I couldn't tell from the replay. It still doesn't excuse contact to the head or face.

    "Obviously I hit her in the face because she was pulling my pants and I wanted to get her off me. I felt my hand connect so I knew I did hit her there."

    http://www.potomacsoccerwire.com/news/460/11390
  19. Longtimesub

    Longtimesub Member

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    Seger's explanation:

    "Obviously I hit her in the face because she was pulling my pants and I wanted to get her off me,” said Seger. “I felt my hand connect so I knew I did hit her there."

    http://www.phillysoccernews.com/teams/independence2.php?article_id=5028

    Yes, indeed, a "violent conduct" in EPL would result in a 3 game suspension...

    I don't really have any problem with what the DC did in this case...But, I did have problems when McNeil and Wambach got disciplined. I am talking about Wambach's tackle on Daniela...

    No red cards were issued by refs to McNeil and Wambach during the game...I am assuming that refs didn't think that neither player deserved a red card. But, afterwards, they got suspensions...

    I don't think DC ever overturned a red card in WPS...Would that ever happen?


  20. alckz

    alckz Member

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    as i watched the game towards the close and down 2 goals, i kinda felt seger was bound to snap and do something silly. there was a foul or two before the card, and i'm sure it raised a red flag with the refs. is it a red? hell yeah, does it warrant two game suspension? don't think so, but it's reassurance for the players...
  21. DCUPopeAndLillyFan

    DCUPopeAndLillyFan Member

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    The eyebrow-raiser here was that the DC voted not to give a suspension to either Wambach or McNeil - it was the commissioner that issued the suspensions.
  22. kittenbiscuits

    kittenbiscuits New Member

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    for last years STL Athletica and Freedom game, the refs were off their rockers. So much should have been called and wasn't.

    what i think is interesting about hte clip compiled is that it doesn't show seger's followup WTF to the ref. and while they show wambach stewing/looking super cranky after the fould they don't show her confronting seger.
    off topic - watching bompastor trying to pull an angry wambach away from seger might have made my life.
  23. kool-aide

    kool-aide Member

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    Oh puleez. :rolleyes: Players (male & female) grab each other's shirts/shorts all the time and they don't retaliate by two arm shoves w/ one arm/hand to the face. Why? Because it will get them tossed. Did you see Boxx give Bresonik a raised arm shove in the USA-Germany game when Bresonik grabbed her shorts? Of course not. Boxx played through and forced the ref to call the foul on Bresonik.

    Seger knew exactly what she was doing and exactly where she was putting her right hand (the arm away from Huffman) and Seger herself isn't exactly shy about fouls or physical contact. If Seger had been in a different league, she would have gotten shoved back by a player on Huffman's team (all Abby did was yell at her) while players from both teams all ran up to huddle & push back & forth.
  24. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

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    I don't mean violent as in throwing punches; I mean that "emphatic" would be an inadequate word to describe the force and flavor of the dissent. It was, however brief it was, way, way over the top...
  25. UNC4EVER

    UNC4EVER Member

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    I've got several comments on this issue:

    (1) Overall, I continue to feel the level of officiating in WPS is weak. Also, that there is an undesirably high level of violent and or reckless contact occurring among the players, much of which is going uncalled. My understanding is that McNeil's April suspension was for a foul that was called but not carded? If I am correct in this, then it is another example of the league second guessing the on-field officials, and while (in principal) that makes me wince, in practice-- go to it league! And keep slapping these damn refs in the face and kicking them in the ass until they learn how to do their jobs! I have no information on the McNeil suspension, but the league seems most likely to impose sanctions in instances where their quarrel is not only with the players, but also with the officiating on the pitch. Given what I see as numerous poor performances by the officials, I see why they might be reacting this way.

    (2) As I said, I have no information on the April 2010 McNeil suspension. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to know more about that and share my opinion here. :). But I disagree with Kool-Aide, who cares what I want, or what I (or any other fan) thinks? I don't think we are "owed" video. There is a chain of command from the officials to the DC to (yikes!) the League In Its Wisdom... I don't see where a fan poll figures into this process? Anyway, if we had the video, we'd be all over the map about what was called for, so what's the point?

    (3) Seger's action was clearly a red card. She was looking right at Huffman-- the arguement that the contact to the face was accidental because Huffman was "too low" is just silly. When you are looking right at a player and choose to push them in the face, ya pretty much know where the contact is going to occur, and Seger has said as much.

    (4) Most Importantly, there is a lot to like here! The CR was on top of the play, conferred with the AR, showed Seger the appropriate card... Yahoo! this is the way it is supposed to work. Thanks Refs!

    (5) As to whether there should have been additional sanction, there was a lot of back and forth before the final foul. Fair cause on both sides for the players to be feeling a bit chippy. It was a pretty snotty foul, but not really even on the Richter scale in terms of real potential for lasting harm. HOWEVER, come on guys... When you first push a player in the face and then stand in front of the League's National TV Feed with the veins chording out in your neck while screaming "What the F**k!", a player might ought to be aware that there is some possibility that a League seeking to build brand image might feel some impulse to want to Pile On. I think that is at least part of what happened. A cautionary note to players: Don't just think, where is the Ref? but also, Are we televised? :p

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