Youngsters in MLS (1993 or later)

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Real Corona, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Jackson was on the bench last game.

    The Brek criticism is silly. Remember that when Schellas came to Dallas, Brek was recovering from a torn meniscus he had suffered towards the end of the previous season. [Schellas didn't draft Brek and wasn't his coach in 2008 when Brek didn't see the field]

    Then as a 19 year old, Schellas gave him 19 games. In 2010 and 2011 it was 25 and 31 games. Schellas has benched him on a couple of occassions for being a hotheaded dolt. It's been tough love a lot.

    Schellas drafted American guys out of the NCAAs like George John, Matt Hedges, Zach Loyd, etc. and immediately gave them chances.

    I just don't see why Hyndman should get criticized more than other coaches in this discussion regarding young players.

    If the Galaxy bring in Buddle, Keane, and other veteran forwards.............I don't see long discussions about how they're not giving opportunities to Jack McBean. Or maybe I'm missing them?

    Schellas Hyndman has given Jonathan Top a hell of a lot more gametime than Chicago has given to Kellen Gulley. When does Victor Pineda ever see the field?

    I'm just defensive about it because FCD is one of the few US-based clubs that has taken the homegrown initiative seriously, and they're the ones getting blasted. FCD is one of the few clubs routinely signing teenagers, while others are signing mediocre NCAA players they never use like Matt Lampson. Nobody criticizes Sigi Schmid for not using his teenage homegrowns more..........because he and the Sounders haven't bothered to sign any!!! Yallop can't be criticized, because San Jose doesn't sign any!

    Anyway, I'm done talking about it now. If you guys want to criticize Schellas Hyndman for not using the kids that he is in fact actually using.....................go for it.


  2. soccersubjectively

    soccersubjectively Let us soccer

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  3. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

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    Only if you think Shea was lying.
    http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/...demanded-brek-shea-play-be-sold-or-be-traded/

    Other coaches do come under plenty of criticism, and in this case, Dallas is the natural target. It built a tremendous youth team and signed a bunch of players from it, and then it didn't play them. There's an obvious disconnect.
    soccersubjectively and john3628 repped this.
  4. Werdman89

    Werdman89 Member+

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    I think it's magnified because the team hasn't had a very successful year. If they were in a playoff spot right now, I don't think there'd be as much criticism.


  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    This isn't really that needs to be discussed here, so I'm dropping it after this.

    All that article indicates is that there was a young player frustrated about the amount of playing time he was getting. I'm sure every player in the league who's not getting significant playing time is in a similar position. Not all of them whine to their agents and get the commisioner to demand that they play him, though.

    Imagine that. The commisioner of the league told the FCD coaching staff who they needed to play of their roster. Utterly absurd. I'm sure the EPL brass is calling Alex Ferguson and telling him whom to play or not play. Another idiotic byproduct of single-entity I guess. I just would like to be eavesdropping when Garber calls Bruce Arena demanding that he plays Jack McBean. Whoa, imagine what profane insults that would be returned!!!
  6. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

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    It might seem absurd if Garber hadn't been proven so obviously right.

    Sir Alex Ferguson has never had any trouble arranging opportunities for his talented youngsters to play.
  7. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

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    It's not just that teams/coaches get criticized more when they're unsuccessful than when they're successful: when your team sucks, it's the ideal time to play youngsters isn't it, instead of sticking with Daniel Hernandez (and I don't know if FCD has any young players at that position, but I do know that Hernandez is no Keane/Donovan) types ? Why waste time on guys who won't be a part of the next good FC Dallas team, when you could be developing your next generation of players, or at least observing and identifying who may be a part of that next generation? When a team has more homegrown players than every other team, you'd think that would be even more clear...
  8. rossgreen

    rossgreen Member

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    This is a valid point, but from a marketing standpoint, tough. How can you draw fans when your player selection admits that a season is done, and no push for the playoffs--no matter how impossible--won't be tried?

    I understand both sides. I want all of my homegrowns getting time, even if its just substitute appearances. But I do understand that in FCD's current position, the myth of a playoff spot hinders them seeing the pitch.
  9. USASoccer12345

    USASoccer12345 Red Card

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    The MLS was created to give American soccer players a place to begin rather than going around the world. The League has definitely improved having players from different countries, but the league was created to develop American players. Honestly, I couldn't give two shitttts about a guy like Freddy Montero or David Ferreira. They aren't Americans, therefore why should I really care if a few South American guys are tearing up the league?

    Its good that all these international players have been brought into the league, but when these guys are going to be taking up time from young Americans with National Team potential, I have a HUGE problem with that. For example, I have a huge problem with the fact that Juan Agudelo sat on the bench all year last year because a journeyman Englishman was playing better. I really have no problem if an international player is playing in front of Joe Doe who is 29 years old and hasn't played more than ten games in a year in his career, but when these international players are playing instead of guys like Shea and Agudelo for whatever reason, its a huge problem. This league's main purpose is to develop young americans, its not to get more popularity at this point. It has enough popularity with stars like Beckham, Henry, Keane and others, now lets focus on developing Americans by getting them maximum playing time. I really don't care if a team suffers in terms of results, these young Americans need to get playing time and that is more important than results in the MLS.
    SuperChivo repped this.
  10. Otergod

    Otergod Member

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    Victor will before too long. Klopas has talked about getting him on the pitch for some time but he's spent most of the season with the U20's. I wouldnt be surprised if he got PT towards the end of the season since Pappa is off to Holland in January.
  11. EXALIFTIN

    EXALIFTIN Member

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    John Top will start(!) for FCD tonight
    Edit: fellow 93' Luis Gil also starts for RSL
    john3628 repped this.
  12. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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    WTF :eek:
  13. youth=glory

    youth=glory Member

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    Sadly the Haitian sensation is back and pushed the other none forward HG's to the pressbox. be interesting to see how Top does. I expect RSL to dominate possession so Top may be hung out by himself for a while (like Luna was the other nite).
  14. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Well they won again. Hard to argue with that.

    Top played the first 45, and then was taken out for Jackson.
  15. youth=glory

    youth=glory Member

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    On the MLS board you argue its all DF that is bringing this team back (I agree, though the D has been pretty solid lately). Then you come over hear and argue because they are winning it justifies playing guys like Marcelin and Sealy when really neither have any impact on the game, and merely are riding DF's coattails. (though Castillo's couple great plays seem to have gone unnoticed by many the last few games)
  16. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    RSL started a team full of veterans and Gil..............................and FCD started a team full of veterans and Top. (93's or younger)

    Those are the only two players relevant to this thread. I'm not interested in the other idiotic argument any more. FCD has lost two games since June 16 with the players Schellas is choosing to play. Can't argue with that.

    I thought both Gil and Top had next-to-no impact on the game.
  17. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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    I think the other FC Dallas players passed the ball only 2 times to Top the entire 1st half. Top kept on going back just to try help his team regain possession. FC Dallas sucks. Gil may not have made an impact last night but on most days he does.
  18. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    The only US eligible U20's to get playing time this week so far were:

    FC Dallas-Jonthan Top
    RSL-Luis Gil

    That's it. I expect a lambasting of Philly today when they don't use Zach Pfeffer, who's gotten exactly zero minutes for them in MLS play this season. Philly hates youngsters!!!!!
  19. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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    o_O How long have you been following the Union?

    Jose Villarreal played on Wednesday and I expect him to get some more time this week in the CCL.
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    All I'm saying is that this weekend only two kids relevant to this thread have played. Top and Gil (and you can throw in Villarreal on Wednesday if you'd like)........and people are lambasting the coach that played one of 'em. Schellas didn't have to start Jonathan Top. He had other options.
  21. Peter Bonetti

    Peter Bonetti Member+

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    I think this discussion is framed all wrong. If we leave the focus on personalities or club loyalties out of it, we get a better look at the real issue. We have yet to develop a strong, consistent approach to player development once a player has turned 18. We are noticing it in FC Dallas because their academy is so strong that it is cranking out pro prospects at a faster rate than any other so the problem is more pronounced there, but it is a problem that exists throughout our entire country. We thought through player development until players turn 18, then our plan is to wing it.

    FC Dallas doesn't have a strong, cohesive plan for what to do once these kids are ready to turn pro, but not ready to star or feature and we notice it a lot more because they have so many kids becoming professionals. Players need to have someplace to progress that is a manageable goal.

    But Clint is right - none of our clubs have a strong system in place. I actually think that DC United, between their Under 23 team and their sending players out on loan spells depending on how much playing time that they are likely to get are ahead of most in this area, but their academy recruiting is so far behind FC Dallas's, that nobody really cares what is going on DC because they don't have many new prospects to bring along at the professional level.

    This issue isn't Schellas Hyndmann issue and it is not an FC Dallas issue, it is an American issue and one that needs to be addressed without a focus on personality or club as that will only serve as a distraction.

    One other thing that we might want to avoid is mixing issues like other clubs being worse at recruiting or player development with not playing prospects with the first team. That just muddies the water and makes it impossible to talk about anything - but we aren't even going to get to that point unless we drop the personalities out of the issue.
  22. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

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    Ha, I just posted a shorter version of your post, but deleted it when I saw that you beat me to the punch. Anyhow, it's all about having the developmental pieces in place, which are not there once a HG player is signed.

    At this point, I would advise any Mexican-American player who has real potential to head south (except Chivas Guadalajara). Obviously, some of those kids are sold a bill of goods and then find themselves lost down there w/o family friends, support network, etc. But for Mexican-American players who have interest from not only MLS, but also foreign clubs (Guido, e.g.), they can do worse then play in Mexico. There are never guarantees, but when they eventually make it to the 1st team they're more likely to have been vetted at lower levels, and thus stand a better chance of becoming productive pros.
  23. USASoccer12345

    USASoccer12345 Red Card

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    Am I the only one that thinks that its a very bad sign that we only have three U-20 eligible getting any type of minutes in the MLS? Heck, we probably have more U-20 eligible South Americans getting minutes in the MLS than Americans. Thats a big problem. Maybe the other U-20 eligible players are not good players and don't deserve minutes, but whatever it is, it needs to change. You can't improve when you have that few young guys getting minutes in the MLS. Top and Villareal haven't even gotten regular minutes all season. So, Gil is the only U-20 eligible player that has gotten any real type of minutes throughout the whole season.
  24. ielag

    ielag Member+

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    Compare it to the same stage of previous cycles and it's improving. Then throw in all the abroad U-20 eligible players like Packwood, Cunningham, Pelosi, Bijev, Guido, etc. and it's as many players we've ever had in pro environments at this stage of an U-20 cycle.

    Plus, I expect some of the top U-20 college player to be in MLS next season and making an impact, or a couple also could end up in Europe.
  25. USASoccer12345

    USASoccer12345 Red Card

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    Well when you look at countries like Brazil, Germany, Spain and Italy, they all have a lot more than at most three guys in their home league getting minutes. If the USA ever wants to get to the top of World Soccer, you can't have three U-20 eligible player getting minutes any minutes at all. Three guys? Do some of you realize how poor that is? Three guys in your home league that are U-20 eligible are getting any type of minutes. That would never happen in Brazil, Italy, Spain, Germany or even Mexico.

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