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Youngsters in MLS 2012

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Werdman89, Jan 2, 2012.

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  1. Ironkick14

    Ironkick14 Member+

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    Of course it would. But the league will only be parity-driven until there is a good product on the field anyway. The point is to increase fandom by creating rivalries and good games almost every game of the year. Once the league reaches the level of the Dutch league, or something similar, the parity wont be such a big issue. Also, teams can still buy players. Academy product will never be the sole source of talent for MLS.
     


  2. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Yeah.......the FCD reserves have been homegrown/academy HEAVY this whole season. That's partly been due to the injury crisis encountered in the first team.

    In this particular reserves game they played 9 current and former academy players. [Sanchez, Luna, Ulloa, Hernandez, Robledo, Ambrose, Guzman, Top, Guillen]

    What's really encouraging is that this team of youngsters has only lost one reserve game this season.
     
  4. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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    Well, I don't know about FC Dallas but hopefully this is good for US Soccer.
     
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  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

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    Except that Sanchez, Luna, & Leyva (who was on the bench) can't play for the US. I know Guillen lists his nationality as Mexican as well, but don't know if he's US-eligible.

    As of right now many of the academy "graduates" aren't US-eligible. Other than the FCD crew, there's Najar at DCU, Hernandez with Philly, Fagundez with NE, the raft of Canadian kids, etc.

    There's the website keeping track of the performance of homegrown players each week...............and many weeks we only have one or two US-eligible kids get into a game. Especially if Hamid isn't starting for DCU. [Agudelo getting healthy & moving to Chivas helps.]

    That's not the fault of MLS coaches. No fan should expect Schellas Hyndman to start Jonathan Top over Blas Perez. No fan should expect Jack McBean to start over Buddle, Keane, etc. The system is the problem.
     
  6. morange92

    morange92 Member

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    well in a general sense, im fine with a portion of academy graduates not being usa-elgible, though hopefully the number of US-elgible kids getting into a game increases. I don't think we should restrict academy players to strictly US born Americans. Also what is the website tracking homegrown players?
     
  7. derek750

    derek750 Member+

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    Although it's still probably too early to make a convincing case about how the HG program is changing MLS, I think there are probably a couple reasons for the contributions of players that aren't US-eligible.
    1. Some of these players may be from less affluent families and might be less likely to pursue college soccer since turning pro means bringing in money immediately.
    2. There also might be a higher bar for kids that aren't US-eligible since they need to be both good enough to get signed as a HG player and important enough to the team to occupy an international roster spot. For example, the Union traded away Kyle Nakazawa for an international spot before they signed Hernandez this season.
     
  8. Ironkick14

    Ironkick14 Member+

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    In addition, many of the non-citizens were born into the soccer culture that exists in their home country. Their families are such recent immigrants( presumably less than the 18-20 years the kid has been alive) that they have much the same soccer upbringing as a kid living in Mexico or Uruguay(Fagundez?) or wherever.
     
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  9. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

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    Agreed. MLS worked very hard for single entity in order to keep the price of players down. The draft is a key element of this plan. It allows the league to greatly reduce the market for domestic players and to allocate them among the league to keep all the teams competitive. That is why they also have a "discovery process" for players outside the league which helps to limit the ability for agents to create a US based market for their players.

    Of course the reality is that there is a world market for players, which is why certain players (Gen Adidas, kids with obvious talent like Gil, foreign players) can negotiate like soccer players from the rest of the world. If Beckham wants to play in LA, then MLS will find a way to make that happen. But if a lesser player that might improve the quality of the league wants to play with a club that doesn't hold his discovery rights - too bad. With MLS there is a constant tension between things that will improve the on field product and the impact those things will have on the leagues ability to minimize player costs.
     
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  10. scoachd1

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    I think this will start to change as more college players start to become eligible. Another reason is that recent immigrants might not understand or feel their children are eligible to go the college route. They also may assume MLS youth programs are like teams from the country they came from and might not realize that MLS is not well set up transition young players to the first team.
     
  11. derek750

    derek750 Member+

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    It's hard to argue with any of this. It will be interesting to see how MLS responds if the changes in the youth development system and soccer culture actually end up producing more players like Gil and Flores who can compete at a high enough level in the global market for players to have real leverage in negotiations with the league.

    As far as "a lesser player that might improve the quality of the league [who] wants to play with a club that doesn't hold his discovery rights," Josh Janniere was a TFC academy product who ended up being traded to Colorado (and was then released this season). I realize it isn't exactly the same situation we've been talking about but I don't see how giving Josh Janniere the freedom to sign with Colorado without the Rapids surrendering a supplemental draft pick would really improve MLS that much.

    Even Lee Nguyen, who left to sign with PSV and refused to sign with the league a couple years ago, is now back in MLS making $50,500. The global market for soccer players isn't always as welcoming as it seems.
     
  12. scoachd1

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    Nguyen is a perfect example. From all reports he was making about double that outside the country. But if he wanted to play in his own country he was going to have to take the amount MLS has set the market for which is $44,100 plus a small bonus. Ryan Guy is in the same boat - he went to Ireland to play and had to accept $44,100 to play in his own country. Meanwhile players from other countries who are far less effective in terms of Castrol ratings and play far fewer minutes get paid 2-3 times that much. Lozano gets $241K; Cardenas gets $100K; Moreno gets $150K; Runstrom gets $76K.
     
  13. jfalstaff

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    this is why having a league with no free agency is just not doable for long. There's going to come a tipping point where there is just going to be a mutiny. We are already missing out watching the young careers of so many domestic players.

    Every player deserves his market value. This should be the right of every player.

    We are a young league and should be an exporter of players once they reach their prime. Just look at Brazil and Holland. Their great players play in the country until they are around 22 and then they are sold to the bigger leagues in Europe. Those countries then put the transfer fee millions back into youth development and repeat the process.

    MLS is working backwards. The best young American players are ditching MLS for Europe before they are ready and MLS is spending its millions on over paid Euros who are at the end of their career. No wonder you have the Seattle GM say that they don't have enough money to put into the academies to make them work efficiently.

    MLS should be putting its millions into youth development and coaching and then reaping the benefits of selling those players once they reached a high enough transfer value. As fans of the sport we'd be getting the best of both worlds: we'd be able to watch young American players start their careers and we'd have a much larger pool of talent for the USNT.
     
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  14. john3628

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    I think the Yanks who return to the US should get a contract like the G.A. players or something.
     
  15. jfalstaff

    jfalstaff Member

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    They should get their market value. Period.
     
  16. bajansoccer

    bajansoccer Member

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    Its a shame. Jack McBean a HG for LAG makes more than Nguyen, and George John. The system is screwed up.
     
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  17. voros

    voros Member

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    McBean is far more likely to actually net a significant transfer fee (but also likely to be worth nothing) than either. McBean is 17 and they are 25.

    The end result is that McBean simply has a lot more leverage than they do.
     
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  18. scoachd1

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    They are getting the market value that MLS sets for them. The concept is to pay wrap them up for 4 years at a minimum rate. Then give them a moderate below market raise to re-up. If they don't, you get situations like Holden being on the national team starter getting $35K or so. The few guys who have some leverage like Mwanga actually get close to market rate because they don't want too many promising young players bypassing the league. The point of me bringing this up is to interject some business reality to the last few pages of conversations. The MLS guys who control the USSF don't really understand player development but they are pretty darned good at economics.
     
  19. jfalstaff

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    yeah it's called a monopsony. MLS LLC is one corporation and the only buyer. There are not 19 separate companies competing for players. Players don't have many options but to choose the salary MLS sets for them. It's not true market value because no one is competing for their services.
     
  20. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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    How many DPs are American in MLS?
     
  21. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

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    Its called basic capitalism. Imperfect yes but the best system for individual teams and players to negotiate with the league. Jack McBean is essentially a top prospect with alot of upside while other players like Nguyen could have gotten more but wanted to come to the US for less. Why do people use George John he is refusing to re-up to play out his contract so he can move to Europe. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't
     
  22. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

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    How many Americans should be DP's? If MLS under pays them then go find a European team to pay you a million dollars.
     
  23. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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    I can think of a few.
     
  24. SUDano

    SUDano Member+

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    And they are?????????????
     
  25. john3628

    john3628 Member+

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    Juan Agudelo, Zusi, Feilhaber, Kenny Cooper, and Kyle Beckerman.
     
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